Fandom, or Fwee what a bunch of loonies.

Ok…its time for another mini-rant.

Fandom, or Fwee what a bunch of loonies.

I’m surfin looking for some info on a con I missed and found a rather lengthy review. Or rather rant. Now, on the surface, this con is aimed at the younger audience, with the average age being about 16 it seems. Their rant focused on how the panels had nothing to do with their interests, how certain guests didn’t ‘belong’ there, how when they went out to eat (in full costume) folks were rude and stared at em.

Lets focus on a few points here.

Panels that had nothing to do with their interests, or while on the surface seemed to be, ended up focused on other things not of interest to them.

My response: I’m sorry if you went to an anime panel and expected to discuss the type of blade San used in Princess Mononoke, and instead it spent 85% of its time on Mecha. Oh, you went to the sci-fi con, and found an anime panel that focused its limited time on a few popular rather than obscure titles? Awww. Next year, why don’t you do your own panel on what you like? Why don’t you –speak up- rather than sit in the back, pout n try n look angsty.

Guests that don’t ‘belong’.
Be happy you have any guests. They wouldn’t be there if someone didn’t think they do. 80’s tv show guests at an anime con? Anime guests at a sci-fi con? Get over yourself. These guests are guests, and your not for a number of reasons. Go become an acknowledged expert, or break into media and maybe you’ll see things differently. Or! Get off your 16 yr old know it all high horse, get involved and see what its like from the other side of the con.

People staring at you while in costume.
Yes, people look at that which is not normal. It is a fact of life. I’m sorry, but I’ve been to hundreds of professional seminars, conventions and meetings. I’ve never run into someone with green skin, tentacles or wearing full plate mail. If being looked at makes you uncomfortable, then dress ‘conventionally’, and blend in with the masses. Walk into a meeting at IBM wearing a Hawaiian shirt and grass skirt, and you’ll get the same type of WTF is that looks. I’m sorry the waitress at Denny’s kept staring at you, but most of her guests aren’t speaking klingon or wearing a lobster tail on their heads. The little Japanese fukus are also not common in the US or Canada.

Fans who think the actors are ‘real’.
There’s an old saying , “I play one on TV”. Yes we know you have memorized all 200 episodes. Yes, we know you know the exact workings of a tricorder, and all updates over the last 200 years. I know, you’re in ‘starfleet academy’ and hope to one day have your own ‘ship’. The person on stage on the other hand, memorized the lines, did the taping, used the prop and immediately flushed it to make room for next week’s episode. Of course, they did this 10 years ago when you were still in diapers. So, maybe, just maybe, you should cut them some slack when they don’t remember if it was the phase converter or the trans-digital hyperdrive that saved their asses in episode 26, huh?

I have found in over 20 years of dealing with fans that most are well mannered, intelligent dreamers. Folks who are a pleasure to be with and mingle with. There are a few however that need a serious beating with a clue-by-four. This small group, with their narrow focus, self centered attitude and childlike mentality drain the life out of you. Lets be blunt here…. Most of these whiney children would never be able to put on a convention that would attract a self-sufficient number of guests, nor be able to pay the fees of those guests they wet themselves over.

To those who put on these cons, and put up with the crap, and stress, and grief, and sleepless weeks, you have my thanks. With out you, we would have no place to gather and make our ‘beep beep noises’. And to those who whine and complain, and otherwise think you are such a big thing, sod off. Smile

The world would probably be a better place if you all did the kool-aid thing, except I know you wont unless its ‘romulan ale’.

Peace, long life, and “Beep Beep!”
_________________
Hoist up the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more

Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay.

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2003 9:40 pm Post subject:

Aw, yes, the old debate about Fans That Go Too Far. Laughing

I used to cringe at SF/F fans who, in my opinion only (obviously), went too far. Then I realized that I felt this way because I was worried that I'd be associated with them. So it seemed that my problem was really more about ME than them! I eventually got the concept that we weren't the same kind of fan so good for them and me.

Now I just feel embarassed for the guests when they meet up with a fan who is perhaps a bit more "involved" than the actor feels comfortable with. I often watch the guest when they're asked a question. Blushing and looking down is a good indicator of discomfort on their part. So I feel more for the guest. Some guests are better able to deal with this aspect of fandom than others. Dominic Keating was fab at this. When one gal said she thought he was hot, he turned to his girlfriend and said "See, SHE thinks I'm hot!" almost as if he was admonishing his girlfriend. Ah ha ha ha ha ...

Mostly, I have to say that TT attendees are oddly well-behaved when you think of the "waaaay out there" fans like those in Trekkies. There are one to two exceptions. Those folks, I seriously wish, would get a clue. One in particular, frightens me every time he gets up to the mic because I've watched him make more than one guest uncomfortable.

I've often felt that perhaps it would be better if TT had a very large security person (or one of those huge Klingon guys in full regalia) at the mic and as soon as the person asked their question the security person would make then step aside AWAY FROM THE MIC to hear the answer to their question. I think this would at least shorten some of the embarassing comments/questions. Obviously, TT shouldn't vet the questions first because that would be censorship. But then again, maybe shy fans wouldn't go up to the mic at all. *sigh* There is no solution to the problem. Hopefully the guests are sufficiently well-versed in fandom to be able to deal with it. *crosses fingers*

I honestly wish that sometimes conventions could insist on a mandatory "How to Behave at a Con and Especially with the Guests" seminar before being issued their registration passes.

And for those who get all "pissy" because a con wasn't run to their satisfaction ... well, unfortunately, that's a character flaw that may take years if ever for the individual to reconcile. Reasonable or constructive criticism is one thing ... hey I've made comments on the survey myself about stuff but destructive criticism is just plain retarded.
_________________
"One of you is about to say goodbye to high society and
return to your sad existence, working for the Man."
Ralph (The Smarmy Host), The Joe Schmo Show

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2003 9:55 pm Post subject:

One of the things that ticked me off was the 'fan' complaining about the 'klingon' at AN. And other 'fans' doing the same.

Its like, Hello Stupid Children! He is volentiering, you are not. He is giving up his time, his day, and getting to stand in 1 spot, for a long boring period of time, while dealing with they likes of you. I'd be surely and pissed too if I had to spend alot of my time dealing with morons.

Oh wait, I did...but I got paid for it. Its why I left the fast food industry. Too many walking fubars who pop their gum, chew it like cow cud, and think that just cuz they can wear something low cut or buy a pair of 'docs' that they are the cats meow.

One of the reasons I no longer do the vol. thing (I used to) is the fact that I have long since run outta patience with these self-centered idiots, and the fact that giving em the cold steel would probably get my membership revolked.

And then I'll never get to ask about episode 85.

_________________
Hoist up the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more

Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay.

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2003 9:59 pm Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2003 10:03 pm Post subject:

A reference to what I will from this point call the "get a life" type fan who corners an actor and askes them very particular questions about a certain episode.

Things like "Capt. Kirk, when you were fighting the gorn on Ceptic Tank III, did you worry you wouldnt see your nepheew Peter again?"

You know....the ones who you want to tackle and beat into a coma at the Q&A's.

Laughing

_________________
Hoist up the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more

Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay.

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2003 10:05 pm Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2003 10:20 pm Post subject:

Naw.... keep the psycho fans away and I'll be good.

maybe. Very Happy

_________________
Hoist up the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more

Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay.

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2003 10:23 pm Post subject:

The other thing is, tackling em means touching em...and, thats like, ewww....

Hmm.... build the dalek, but set the gun to spray bubbles....hmmm....

heh heh heh
_________________
Hoist up the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more

Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay.

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2003 6:10 pm Post subject:

I have to say, I really enjoy these rants of yours, Silent Bob. From this one, to the thread about Fanboys and soap, to your opinions on the layout of the TT webpage and the "programming" situation, I find all of what you say insightful. The points you make are all valid ones, but do make them with a kind of "flare".....

When you get going like this, it reminds me of Denis Leary.....and I love his work. Funny, yet it has truth to it.

Keep it up!
_________________
The boys in black are back.

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2003 6:11 pm Post subject:

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2003 8:55 pm Post subject:

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:54 pm Post subject:

*shrug* people are allowed their opinion about what's right or wrong with a con.

When you rant about those who express their dislike for some aspect of the con, aren't you just complaining about people who complain?

As for the obsessive celeb-stalkers, well, no argument there, but that's because they're encroaching on someone else's space.

[quote="Silent Bob"]Ok…its time for another mini-rant.

Fandom, or Fwee what a bunch of loonies.

I’m surfin looking for some info on a con I missed and found a rather lengthy review. Or rather rant. Now, on the surface, this con is aimed at the younger audience, with the average age being about 16 it seems. Their rant focused on how the panels had nothing to do with their interests, how certain guests didn’t ‘belong’ there, how when they went out to eat (in full costume) folks were rude and stared at em.

Hey Bob! Laughing

<grins and laughs> Sounds like you went to an Anime North related MB! LOL! I have heard every one of those complaints! I really enjoy Anime North and think it's one hell of a con, _some_ of the fanbase however, still has alot of maturing to do. Wink

Enjoyed your post.
Cheers!
~ Kai / Dawn Smile

_________________

" You must be the change you wish to see in the world."

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 9:23 pm Post subject:

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:49 am Post subject:

It's good that you feel big enough to not have to bother saying things to them directly, and instead retreat to a different board. After all, those 16-year-olds can be pretty scary.

Grow up, be a man and say it to their faces.

(I know where this came from, and I'm sure those who attended Anime North would love to see themselves being mocked by the TT board. What a great way to ensure goodwill after people have been actively trying to get the AN people to come to TT. Way to build on the fan base.)

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 5:51 am Post subject:

ROFL! Hey, teener angst can be pretty bad. Smile

Actually, I did post something similar on the AN board and it was removed -very- rapidly. I'm just using AN as an example here.

I've got the same beef with some sites that panned TT and CNA and AX. I think I've just got a problem with anyone who spends a ton of time doing a great costume, goes to a out-of-genra con, bitches that noone knows what they are -and- why do people look at em, and why does everything there thats aimed at their genre seem 'lame' compared to the genre specific cons. I can sum up beefs simply:

People Who: <--edited for clarity
-complain about non-genre costumes at a genre con. (klingons at AN, SailorMoons at AN, anyone in costume at CNA)

-write multi page scathing reports on a con, then go anyway.

-do obscure costumes then whine the no one 'gets it'

-do costumes then whine people are looking at em

-are elitist snobs who look down their noses at -everything- they don't like.

Personally, I enjoy seeing a good costume, period. I'll check almost anything out at least once, and have put in -alot- more time helping and supporting and endorcing cons than most of these children. (used generically here as many are college age or beyond).

(edited as I forgot a few words, in bold above) Smile

_________________
Hoist up the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more

Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay.

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 7:59 am Post subject:

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 8:25 am Post subject:

Sorry!

I had a typo. My beefs were about 'people who'. So, you can wear your costume there. I'll rant about the 'snobs' who complain about you doing so. Smile

My favorite one, was the guy who went there (CNA/SFX/Comic book flea market) dressed as a 'superhero' and had the -nerve- to call the anime fans 'freaks', and the sci-fiers 'need-a-lifers'. It was a riot reading his thing, as he had big descriptions on all his '3l1t3' scores on rare X-men comics n stuff.

If I do a costume, its cuz I like whatever I'm doing. I've done a corellean (Han Solo style, but with a blade, not a blaster), TOS Klingon, Jedi, Sith, Tuxedo Mask, Ataru. I'd do Kenshin but I don't own a hakuma (sp) at the moment. Oh, and I've done Silent Bob at 3 cons last year. Smile

It just bothers me to see some people put a -ton- of time into something, then some elitist snob has to cut em to ribbons because it doesn't 'fit' in their perfect narrow world. Sailor Moon at TT? Horay! JEM at AN? Cool! Psychosis at CNA? Excellent. Person dressed up like Barney at TT checking packages? Well......maybe not. But if he had crossed eyes and a big arrow outta his head? Waaay Cool. Smile

If you dont like what you see, either get involved, do your own con/panel/whatever or STFU.

And, before anyone says 'gee SB? Pot-Kettle-Black?', take a -good- look at some of what I've posted, then ask Stephen just how many suggestions -I- have shot to TT in the last 2 years. Many were also shot at AN. I've had quite a few discussions with concom members at several cons on things. Some of my ideas were used, many not, for many reasons. (The Shatner pinyata for example was a no-go, but I'll just go shoot BS at this years SplattAttack instead.) Very Happy

I've been attending cons for over 15 yrs. Thats longer than many of those whiners have been alive.

See my panel rant as an example. There was a problem. Others had problems, and others did not. Things were maturely discussed, and everythings smooth now with all involved having a better understanding so future issues dont go 'fhoom'. I didn't just say 'they screwed me'. I had a problem, suggested fixed, was shown a system, and things will be better next year for everyone. Thats! part of getting involved.

Anyhoo, long rant, too early in the day for me, I need a nap. (One should not be awake b4 the crack of noon.) Very Happy

Peace.
_________________
Hoist up the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more

Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay.

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 8:29 am Post subject:

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:40 am Post subject:

I like fandom. I like going to cons. I like seeing things through the eyes of others. I wouldn't rant if I didn't care, ya'know? Smile

Most of the people I've met at cons and on the boards have been pretty cool. We may not see eye-to-eye, but we co-exist ok. Theres a few 'special cases', but only a few, really.

Some of us who costume just like the characters. Some of us are show offs. Some are attention seekers, and others are just plain insane.

So, which one am I?

Yes. Smile

_________________
Hoist up the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more

Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay.

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:59 pm Post subject:

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 1:12 pm Post subject:

Allright... Here goes...

Maybe your post was deleted because you broke the forum rules. So, you turn around and flame them only on a different server. Very classy.

Now...

I'm not a cosplayer. Nor will I be. Hell, I barely qualify as a SF/Anime fan. But...

Cosplayers who complain about being stared at: Silly complaint. They shouldn't be mistreated, and I've seen people act genuinely bad toward them. I don't care what you wear, but that ain't right.

Cosplayers who are trying to be "trendy": No, that's not it. I could also word it as "cosplayers who aren't going to dress up as the same thing for five years in a row". Anime, being a much more active visual genre than SF means that there's always a new crop of things coming up, so there are those who *gasp* want to keep things fresh and new. If this wasn't the case, there'd be an army of Sailor moon cosplayers at AN and little else. I'm glad AN hasn't fallen into the "stuck in the past" aspect of fandom. There's a mix of old standards and new shows.

(not to mention there's the challenge of creating a new costume, instead of wearing the same one repeatedly)

Cosplayers who are pissed nobody gets their costume: Um, the people I know who were at TT and in anime costumes were expecting that most people wouldn't know what their costume was, and were fine about it. In fact, it meant they could explain it, tell people about it and feel good when the rare person actually recognized it. I'd say it's dissapointing from time to time, probably, but I wouldn't say most are pissed about things. Way to tar the many with the words of the few.

People who write multi-page scathing con reports, and "go anyway": Sorry, unless you've got plans for a time machine, I'm not sure about how this can be avoided. Now, if you're talking about going to the one the year after, well, sometimes it's a matter of expectations and plans; If you know the con messes up event X, you don't prep for event X. Or you prep to try and fix things, something you yourself said they should do.

(Note the number of Anime-related panels this year at TT with new people on them. I guess they didn't like some things about last year's anime panels...)

Oh, and you seem to have no problem expressing your negative feelings about cons you're still going to. That, and you're even better at expressing your misgivings for fan remarks about a con you didn't attend, yet seem to feel more than capable of defending.

People who "look down their noses" at things they don't like: So, what exactly does your posts slamming other fans qualify as?

People who complain about "non-genre" costumes at a con: My jury, personally, it out on this one. I generally follow the policy of "respect earnest effort" (occasionally I do let loose though) but there are times when I have to take a deep breath and really think about it. Things generally get added to cons: from my random history sources tell me Star Trek fans started to hijack traditional sci-fi cons at the outset, and I'm sure the argument was the same there. Then again, the Trek fans eventually got their own cons and turned it around, making their events sci-fi (which was more than smart considering the lack of much new under the star trek umbrella for a while). I think the complaints, however, are not about the costumes being there, but the events. Events that are possibly taking away time from other more related events. f a Dawson's Creek troupe went to TT and got prime spots and times for things, you'd probably be wondering WTF as well...

Anyway you seem to be more than happy to go out and complain about other people when in fact all you are doing is complaining about other people. If you're cool with being a hypocrite, that's great. I've yet to figure out what gives you the right to complain about things as you see fit but dismiss others' complaints. And if this is your way of trying to get word out among the AN crew about Toronto trek, I'd be terrified to see how you dissuade people.

Take care...

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 1:30 pm Post subject:

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:24 pm Post subject:

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:30 pm Post subject:

I'm going to comment on two items only because my "spidey sense" tells me this thread is about to go to a very bad place soon ...

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:31 pm Post subject: Anou...

I tried my bestest to not get involved, but I figure why not? ^^ More fun!

I have a webpage, and I rant on it. I don't dare call it a "review" of a convention, b/c I cannot maintain an unbiased opinion. IMHO, a friend of mine does that very well, for me (well, us...). ^^ He's a lot more unbiased than I am.

Also, as for the younger people... they're young. And they don't know any better. I know I like to think I was way more mature at 16, but in reality, I probably wasn't. Smile

I know that being young is no excuse, so why don't we try to help them? If you hear them bashing something, ask them to stop, and so on. Suggest to them to become panelists. They're not going to know, and probably think that they have to be someone special (as in, have certain qualifications, not just an avid fan knowledge) to be on one (this is, in fact, what I thought, until visiting the TT17 website, and decided I'd be one too, and actually got accepted). Anime fans are so young, and the majority of the fanbase is young, so they have no mentors to look up to for guidance. And sometimes, we older people can be just as...immature?... as the young ones. I know I certainly am. :Þ

Also, they're probably not used to taking responsibility for things. Most are there without adult supervision, with parents paying for hotel rooms who aren't necessarily there themselves. No one is policing their behaviour.

At least I'm not blaming violence on TV! Razz

As for the costume issues - outright staring (and catcalling/commenting) at a costumer in a skimpier/sexier costume is not cool. So why would the costumer wear it? Maybe because running around at a con with a bunch of friends having a great time negates the fact that they don't normally dress like that. That there are other people in skimpy costumes, so you don't have to feel alone. And that no one looks at you as a freak for dressing up because costumes abound.

As for the lack of recognition? That happens everywhere. I wore a costume last year to TT, and I was surprised at how few people actually knew who I was... I wasn't even a HUGE fan of the series, just a fan, and I could have guessed. That was disappointing... but I got over it, realising that just b/c it's a sci fi con, doesn't mean that everyone there is going to know who all the sci fi characters are. But we all know this. ^^ I have only one semi-recognizable costume this year... and by that, people will be able to tell what I am, just not who Smile

...the others are off the wall unknown (including a literary chara! whee!).

Ok, I think I've ranted long enough. I'm in a fun-debate-y mood... maybe i'll go check out 10 FAD... Wink

~e

Also, quick question. SB, I dont understand your post about which anime you like.... are you listing off the shows you watch, or the shows you consider trendy? I'm guessing it's what you watch.... am I right? *oh please let me be right!! I'm usually so off base... o.O*

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:40 pm Post subject: