|
Fandom,
or Fwee what a bunch of loonies. The thread from hell (Note, lots
of busted images here.)
| Author |
Message |
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
 Posted:
Sun Jun 15, 2003 2:33 pm Post
subject: Fandom, or Fwee what a bunch of loonies. |
|
|
Ok…its time for another mini-rant.
Fandom, or Fwee what a bunch of loonies.
I’m surfin looking for some info on a con I missed and found a rather
lengthy review. Or rather rant.
Now, on the surface, this con is aimed at the younger audience, with
the average age being about 16 it seems. Their rant
focused on how the panels had nothing to do with their interests,
how certain guests didn’t ‘belong’ there, how when they went out to
eat (in full costume) folks were rude and stared at em.
Lets focus on a few points here.
Panels that had nothing to do with their interests, or while on the
surface seemed to be, ended up focused on other things not of interest
to them.
My response: I’m sorry if you went to an anime panel and expected
to discuss the type of blade San used in Princess Mononoke, and instead
it spent 85% of its time on Mecha. Oh, you went to the sci-fi con,
and found an anime panel that focused its limited time on a few popular
rather than obscure titles? Awww. Next year, why don’t you do your
own panel on what you like? Why don’t you –speak up- rather than sit
in the back, pout n try n look angsty.
Guests that don’t ‘belong’.
Be happy you have any guests. They wouldn’t be there if someone didn’t
think they do. 80’s tv show guests at an anime con? Anime guests at
a sci-fi con? Get over yourself. These guests are guests, and your
not for a number of reasons. Go become an acknowledged expert, or
break into media and maybe you’ll see things differently. Or! Get
off your 16 yr old know it all high horse, get involved and see what
its like from the other side of the con.
People staring at you while in costume.
Yes, people look at that which is not normal. It is a fact of life.
I’m sorry, but I’ve been to hundreds of professional seminars, conventions
and meetings. I’ve never run into someone with green skin, tentacles
or wearing full plate mail. If being looked at makes you uncomfortable,
then dress ‘conventionally’, and blend in with the masses. Walk into
a meeting at IBM wearing a Hawaiian shirt and grass skirt, and you’ll
get the same type of WTF is that looks. I’m sorry the waitress at
Denny’s kept staring at you, but most of her guests aren’t speaking
klingon or wearing a lobster tail on their heads. The little Japanese
fukus are also not common in the US or Canada.
Fans who think the actors are ‘real’.
There’s an old saying , “I play one on TV”. Yes we know you have memorized
all 200 episodes. Yes, we know you know the exact workings of a tricorder,
and all updates over the last 200 years. I know, you’re in ‘starfleet
academy’ and hope to one day have your own ‘ship’. The person on stage
on the other hand, memorized the lines, did the taping, used the prop
and immediately flushed it to make room for next week’s episode. Of
course, they did this 10 years ago when you were still in diapers.
So, maybe, just maybe, you should cut them some slack when they don’t
remember if it was the phase converter or the trans-digital hyperdrive
that saved their asses in episode 26, huh?
I have found in over 20 years of dealing with fans that most are well
mannered, intelligent dreamers. Folks who are a pleasure to be with
and mingle with. There are a few however that need a serious beating
with a clue-by-four. This small group, with their narrow focus, self
centered attitude and childlike mentality drain the life out of you.
Lets be blunt here…. Most of these whiney children would never be
able to put on a convention that would attract a self-sufficient number
of guests, nor be able to pay the fees of those guests they wet themselves
over.
To those who put on these cons, and put up with the crap, and stress,
and grief, and sleepless weeks, you have my thanks. With out you,
we would have no place to gather and make our ‘beep beep noises’.
And to those who whine and complain, and otherwise think you are such
a big thing, sod off. 
The world would probably be a better place if you all did the kool-aid
thing, except I know you wont unless its ‘romulan ale’.
Peace, long life, and “Beep Beep!”
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
 |
| Rosemary
Semi-Official Welcoming Committee
Location: Hamilton, ON, Canada
Age: 37
Gender: Female |
| Posted:
Sun Jun 15, 2003 9:40 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
Aw, yes, the old debate about
Fans That Go Too Far. 
I used to cringe at SF/F fans who, in my opinion only (obviously),
went too far. Then I realized that I felt this way because I was worried
that I'd be associated with them. So it seemed that my problem was
really more about ME than them! I eventually got the concept that
we weren't the same kind of fan so good for them and me.
Now I just feel embarassed for the guests when they meet up with a
fan who is perhaps a bit more "involved" than the actor feels comfortable
with. I often watch the guest when they're asked a question. Blushing
and looking down is a good indicator of discomfort on their part.
So I feel more for the guest. Some guests are better able to deal
with this aspect of fandom than others. Dominic Keating was fab at
this. When one gal said she thought he was hot, he turned to his girlfriend
and said "See, SHE thinks I'm hot!" almost as if he was admonishing
his girlfriend. Ah ha ha ha ha ...
Mostly, I have to say that TT attendees are oddly well-behaved when
you think of the "waaaay out there" fans like those in
Trekkies. There are one to two exceptions. Those folks, I seriously
wish, would get a clue. One in particular, frightens me every time
he gets up to the mic because I've watched him make more than one
guest uncomfortable.
I've often felt that perhaps it would be better if TT had a very large
security person (or one of those huge Klingon guys in full regalia)
at the mic and as soon as the person asked their question the security
person would make then step aside AWAY FROM THE MIC to hear the answer
to their question. I think this would at least shorten some of the
embarassing comments/questions. Obviously, TT shouldn't vet the questions
first because that would be censorship. But then again, maybe shy
fans wouldn't go up to the mic at all. *sigh* There is no solution
to the problem. Hopefully the guests are sufficiently well-versed
in fandom to be able to deal with it. *crosses fingers*
I honestly wish that sometimes conventions could insist on a mandatory
"How to Behave at a Con and Especially with the Guests" seminar before
being issued their registration passes. 
And for those who get all "pissy" because a con wasn't run to their
satisfaction ... well, unfortunately, that's a character flaw that
may take years if ever for the individual to reconcile. Reasonable
or constructive criticism is one thing ... hey I've made comments
on the survey myself about stuff but destructive criticism is just
plain retarded.
_________________
"One of
you is about to say goodbye to high society and
return to your sad existence,
working for the Man."
Ralph (The Smarmy Host), The Joe
Schmo Show |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Sun Jun 15, 2003 9:55 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
One of the things that ticked
me off was the 'fan' complaining about the 'klingon' at AN. And other
'fans' doing the same.
Its like, Hello Stupid Children! He is volentiering, you are not.
He is giving up his time, his day, and getting to stand in 1 spot,
for a long boring period of time, while dealing with they likes of
you. I'd be surely and pissed too if I had to spend alot of my time
dealing with morons.
Oh wait, I did...but I got paid for it. Its why I left the fast food
industry. Too many walking fubars who pop their gum, chew it like
cow cud, and think that just cuz they can wear something low cut or
buy a pair of 'docs' that they are the cats meow.
One of the reasons I no longer do the vol. thing (I used to) is the
fact that I have long since run outta patience with these self-centered
idiots, and the fact that giving em the cold steel would probably
get my membership revolked.
And then I'll never get to ask about episode 85.
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
BJ
Joined: 27 May 2003
Total posts: 710
Location: Horning's Mills
Age: 26
Gender: Female |
| Posted:
Sun Jun 15, 2003 9:59 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Silent Bob wrote: |
And then I'll never get to ask about episode 85.
|
ok what is that? am i just really dumb?
_________________
If Barbie is so popular, then why do you have to buy her friends?
BJ
www.jellybean.8m.com
Parties aren't just for kids anymore[/u] |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Sun Jun 15, 2003 10:03 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
A reference to what I will from
this point call the "get a life" type fan who corners an actor and
askes them very particular questions about a certain episode.
Things like "Capt. Kirk, when you were fighting the gorn on Ceptic
Tank III, did you worry you wouldnt see your nepheew Peter again?"
You know....the ones who you want to tackle and beat into a coma at
the Q&A's.
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
| Rosemary
Semi-Official Welcoming Committee
Location: Hamilton, ON, Canada
Age: 37
Gender: Female |
| Posted:
Sun Jun 15, 2003 10:05 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Silent Bob wrote: |
| You know....the ones who you want to tackle
and beat into a coma at the Q&A's. |
Maybe we should sedate you with Valium before the con starts SB.
_________________
"One of
you is about to say goodbye to high society and
return to your sad existence,
working for the Man."
Ralph (The Smarmy Host), The Joe
Schmo Show |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Sun Jun 15, 2003 10:20 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
Naw.... keep the psycho fans
away and I'll be good.
maybe. 
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Sun Jun 15, 2003 10:23 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
The other thing is, tackling
em means touching em...and, thats like, ewww....
Hmm.... build the dalek, but set the gun to spray bubbles....hmmm....
heh heh heh
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
Agent
J
Joined: 27 Dec 2002
Total posts: 197
Location: Toronto/London.......long
story....
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Mon Jun 16, 2003 6:10 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
I have to say, I really enjoy
these rants of yours, Silent Bob. From this one, to the thread about
Fanboys and soap, to your opinions on the layout of the TT webpage
and the "programming" situation, I find all of what you say insightful.
The points you make are all valid ones, but do make them with a kind
of "flare".....
When you get going like this, it reminds me of Denis Leary.....and
I love his work. Funny, yet it has truth to it.
Keep it up!
_________________
The boys in black are back. |
|
|
| SID
Clue-By-Four Administrator
|
| Posted:
Mon Jun 16, 2003 6:11 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Custard Pie aka Rosemary wrote: |
I've often felt that perhaps it would be better if TT had a
very large security person (or one of those huge Klingon guys
in full regalia) at the mic and as soon as the person asked
their question the security person would make then step aside
AWAY FROM THE MIC to hear the answer to their question. I think
this would at least shorten some of the embarassing comments/questions.
Obviously, TT shouldn't vet the questions first because that
would be censorship. But then again, maybe shy fans wouldn't
go up to the mic at all. *sigh* There is no solution to the
problem. Hopefully the guests are sufficiently well-versed in
fandom to be able to deal with it. *crosses fingers* |
As one of the resident security team members on this board, I'll wade
in with an answer or two for this one
I used to do exactly as you mentioned, handle the mic, move the line
of people to ask questions forward, etc. One of the reasons you shouldn't
see the Klingons or really large people (raises hand) there at the
mic is physics. The people sitting down nearby are just trying to
hear or see the stage, and have difficulty when there are large objects
(people) in the way. I haven't actually been in the main room to see
the guests talk since being promoted years ago unfortunately ...
Thanks for the feedback, and yes, we are aware of the situation of
people needing to step away, and for reasons of confidentiality, I
will not go further. But, I have not seen the layout yet for the main
room this year, and I will make sure to bring this issue up with the
appropriate team members at our pre-con meeting(s).
Wow, that brings back memories, I remember working the mic at TT 8,
and a tall Klingon/Demon/Metal monster-dude was telling me what needed
to be done for my first time assignment there 
_________________
 |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Mon Jun 16, 2003 8:55 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Agent J wrote: |
I have to say, I really enjoy these rants of
yours, Silent Bob. From this one, to the thread about Fanboys
and soap, to your opinions on the layout of the TT webpage and
the "programming" situation, I find all of what you say insightful.
The points you make are all valid ones, but do make them with
a kind of "flare".....
When you get going like this, it reminds me of Denis Leary.....and
I love his work. Funny, yet it has truth to it.
Keep it up! |
Heh.
I take a sorta George Carlin, Galleger, Roddy Piper type view on things.
I like to make people think. Sometimes its with humor, sometimes crudeness,
sometimes bluntness. Love me or hate me, somewhere you'll find a nugget.
Hopefully ya find the gold ones.
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
| Stillvisions
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Total posts: 20
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:54 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
*shrug* people are allowed their
opinion about what's right or wrong with a con.
When you rant about those
who express their dislike for some aspect of the con, aren't you just
complaining about people who complain?
As for the obsessive celeb-stalkers, well, no argument there, but
that's because they're encroaching on someone else's space. |
|
|
| MALCOLM
XERXES
Stuntman/Actor FSQ™ (Mr.™)
Joined: 10 Nov 2002
Total posts: 942
Location: IN THE COURT OF THE CRIMSON
KING
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Tue Jun 17, 2003 12:29 am Post
subject: Re: Fandom, or Fwee what a bunch of loonies. |
|
|
| Silent Bob wrote: |
| To those who put on these cons, and put up with
the crap, and stress, and grief, and sleepless weeks, you have
my thanks. With out you, we would have no place to gather and
make our ‘beep beep noises’. |
SB,
I grok the fullness of the totality! 
_________________
 "...Be
seeing you!" MALCOLM XERXES Stuntman/Actor FSQ™ |
|
|
Kaijugal
Joined: 20 May 2003
Total posts: 204
Location: Far away MONSTER ISLAND
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Tue Jun 17, 2003 1:34 am Post
subject: Re: Fandom, or Fwee what a bunch of loonies. |
|
|
[quote="Silent Bob"]Ok…its time
for another mini-rant.
Fandom, or Fwee what a bunch of loonies.
I’m surfin looking for some info on a con I missed and found a rather
lengthy review. Or rather rant.
Now, on the surface, this con is aimed at the younger audience, with
the average age being about 16 it seems. Their rant
focused on how the panels had nothing to do with their interests,
how certain guests didn’t ‘belong’ there, how when they went out to
eat (in full costume) folks were rude and stared at em.
Hey Bob!
<grins and laughs> Sounds like you went to an Anime North related
MB! LOL! I have heard every one of those complaints! I really enjoy
Anime North and think it's one hell of a con,
_some_ of the fanbase however, still has alot of maturing
to do. 
Enjoyed your post.
Cheers!
~ Kai / Dawn
_________________
 " You must
be the change you wish to see in the world." |
|
|
Agent
J
Joined: 27 Dec 2002
Total posts: 197
Location: Toronto/London.......long
story....
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Tue Jun 17, 2003 9:23 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Silent Bob wrote: |
I take a sorta George Carlin, Galleger, Roddy Piper type view
on things.
|
LOL. I was thinking of saying George Carlin......I've seen two of
his HBO things in the last month, and God is he funny.....but, it's
also some of the smartest political commentary I've heard too.
_________________
The boys in black are back. |
|
|
| View
previous topic :: View
next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Tue Jun 17, 2003 10:03 pm Post
subject: Re: Fandom, or Fwee what a bunch of loonies. |
|
|
| Kaijugal wrote: |
Hey Bob!
<grins and laughs> Sounds like you went to an Anime North
related MB! LOL! I have heard every one of those complaints!
I really enjoy Anime North and think it's one hell of a con,
_some_ of
the fanbase however, still has alot of maturing to do.
Enjoyed your post.
Cheers!
~ Kai / Dawn
|
LOL. I like anime. The thing is, I'm not into the 'trendy crap' which
seems to dominate things. Kenshin, Yamato, Harlock, Lum, Tenchi, Mononoke.
Stuff by Leji Matsumoto, Nobuhiro Watsuki, Hayao Miyazaki, Studio
Ghibli, Rumiko Takahashi for example. Those, I like. Problem is, if
its not 'this years thing' good luck finding it at AN. I enjoed the
con, but I've dealth with too many kids there who think Kimbas a ripoff
of Lion King.
Personally, to me, fandom is about more than arguing over whose 'sakura'
is most authentic, why that 'freak klingon' is at an 'anime' con,
or which 'mecha' is best. Lets not forget the jailbait dressed like
a 'Mints' warm up act, the primadonas who look down on you if your
costume isn't 'authentic', or the ones whose webpages focus almost
entirely on -them-, are a nonstop rant
about how wrong things were, yet still go every year.
I hit 1 'fan' site that had reviews on every Toronto con. If I only
knew of em from this site, I'd never setfoot in Toronto. Mega complaints
about how bad the city is, how the cons sucked, how this was bad,
that was late, how they were staired at, etc etc etc.
It just bugs me, its like, why the F do you bother?
I just realized something....there are -very- few pics of me in any
costume. I've done quite a few though. Over 95% of the pics on my
site are of others whose work I've admired. My reviews are pretty
balanced. Hell, I even found some good about that cluster F CNA.
| Stillvisions wrote: |
| When you rant
about those who express their dislike for some aspect of the
con, aren't you just complaining about people who complain?
|
Yup. But, sometimes, you just have to let it out. If just -1- of these
self centered morons sees this and wakes up, or thinks just a little
more, I'll consider it something. Most will see it and either not
see themselves, or get pissed at me for 'disin' em. Whatever.
Maybe I'll just do up a Kodama, in a Fuku, and then Borgafy the SOB
and watch their 'authenticity police' heads bust from the conflict.
---BOOM!---
oh yeah... to the 1 person reading who I -know- is offended....(You
know who you are) "Pyeryestan' zalupatsa Durak neshtiasnyI"
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
| Stillvisions
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Total posts: 20
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:49 am Post
subject: |
|
|
It's good that you feel big enough
to not have to bother saying things to them directly, and instead
retreat to a different board. After all, those 16-year-olds can be
pretty scary.
Grow up, be a man and say it to their faces.
(I know where this came from, and I'm sure those who attended Anime
North would love to see themselves being mocked by the TT board. What
a great way to ensure goodwill after people have been actively trying
to get the AN people to come to TT. Way to build on the fan base.) |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 5:51 am Post
subject: |
|
|
ROFL! Hey, teener angst can be
pretty bad.
Actually, I did post something similar on the AN board and it was
removed -very- rapidly. I'm just using AN as an example here.
I've got the same beef with some sites that panned TT and CNA and
AX. I think I've just got a problem with anyone who spends a ton of
time doing a great costume, goes to a out-of-genra con, bitches that
noone knows what they are -and- why do people look at em, and why
does everything there thats aimed at their genre seem 'lame' compared
to the genre specific cons. I can sum up beefs simply:
People Who: <--edited
for clarity
-complain about non-genre costumes at a genre con. (klingons at AN,
SailorMoons at AN, anyone in costume at CNA)
-write multi page scathing reports on a con, then go anyway.
-do obscure costumes then whine the no one 'gets it'
-do costumes then whine people are looking at em
-are elitist snobs who look down their noses at -everything- they
don't like.
Personally, I enjoy seeing a good costume, period. I'll check almost
anything out at least once, and have put in -alot- more time helping
and supporting and endorcing cons than most of these children. (used
generically here as many are college age or beyond).
(edited as I forgot a few words, in bold above)
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay.
Last edited by Silent Bob on Wed Jun 18, 2003 8:03 am; edited 1 time
in total |
|
|
Oselle
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Total posts: 206
Location: Guelph
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 7:59 am Post
subject: |
|
|
| Silent Bob wrote: |
ROFL! Hey, teener angst can be pretty bad.
I can sum up beefs simply:
-complain about non-genre costumes at a genre con. (klingons
at AN, SailorMoons at AN, anyone in costume at CNA)
|
Well damn, there go MY costume plans for CNA.
_________________
"Do it big, do it right, do it with style." (Fred Astaire) |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 8:25 am Post
subject: |
|
|
Sorry!
I had a typo. My beefs were about 'people who'. So, you can wear your
costume there. I'll rant
about the 'snobs' who complain about you doing so.
My favorite one, was the guy who went there (CNA/SFX/Comic book flea
market) dressed as a 'superhero' and had the -nerve- to call the anime
fans 'freaks', and the sci-fiers 'need-a-lifers'. It was a riot reading
his thing, as he had big descriptions on all his '3l1t3' scores on
rare X-men comics n stuff.
If I do a costume, its cuz I like whatever I'm doing. I've done a
corellean (Han Solo style, but with a blade, not a blaster), TOS Klingon,
Jedi, Sith, Tuxedo Mask, Ataru. I'd do Kenshin but I don't own a hakuma
(sp) at the moment. Oh, and I've done Silent Bob at 3 cons last year.
It just bothers me to see some people put a -ton- of time into something,
then some elitist snob has to cut em to ribbons because it doesn't
'fit' in their perfect narrow world. Sailor Moon at TT? Horay! JEM
at AN? Cool! Psychosis at CNA? Excellent. Person dressed up like Barney
at TT checking packages? Well......maybe not. But if he had crossed
eyes and a big arrow outta his head? Waaay Cool.
If you dont like what you see, either get involved, do your own con/panel/whatever
or STFU.
And, before anyone says 'gee SB? Pot-Kettle-Black?', take a -good-
look at some of what I've posted, then ask Stephen just how many suggestions
-I- have shot to TT in the last 2 years. Many were also shot at AN.
I've had quite a few discussions with concom members at several cons
on things. Some of my ideas were used, many not, for many reasons.
(The Shatner pinyata for example was a no-go, but I'll just go shoot
BS at this years SplattAttack instead.)
I've been attending cons for over 15 yrs. Thats longer than many of
those whiners have been alive.
See my panel rant as an
example. There was a problem. Others had problems, and others did
not. Things were maturely discussed, and everythings smooth now with
all involved having a better understanding so future issues dont go
'fhoom'. I didn't just say 'they screwed me'. I had a problem, suggested
fixed, was shown a system, and things will be better next year for
everyone. Thats! part of getting involved.
Anyhoo, long rant, too early
in the day for me, I need a nap. (One should not be awake b4 the crack
of noon.)
Peace.
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
| Anonymoose
Psychotic Site Administrator
Joined: 24 Sep 2002
Total posts: 1922
Location: Georgetown, ON CANADA
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 8:29 am Post
subject: |
|
|
| Silent Bob wrote: |
| Personally, I enjoy seeing a good costume, period. |
I agree wholeheartedly with this. There are some costumes out there
that I have absolutely no idea where they came from, but I love seeing
the hard work and imagination that went into them.
My wife is a bit of a costumer as well, so when she sees a costume
that looks really good, she'll sometimes go right up to the person,
ask if she can get a good close look, and then see how the person
did it.
I have to agree with Bob here.. if you go in costume, be prepared
to be gawked at - for good and bad. Some people will be "what the
hell is that person doing in garb like that" while others will be
"this is a good costume, how'd you do that, can I suggest [ such and
such ], etc."
_________________
 |
Make Toronto Trek
Part of the Commonwealth
BRING HARPER OR TRANCE TO TT! |
|
|
|
|
Kaijugal
Joined: 20 May 2003
Total posts: 204
Location: Far away MONSTER ISLAND
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:07 am Post
subject: Re: Fandom, or Fwee what a bunch of loonies. |
|
|
| Silent Bob wrote: |
I hit 1 'fan' site that had reviews on every Toronto con. If
I only knew of em from this site, I'd never setfoot in Toronto.
Mega complaints about how bad the city is, how the cons sucked,
how this was bad, that was late, how they were staired at, etc
etc etc.
|
Bob, I agreed with everything you said it this post. In a frightening
way it puts into words many of the same frustrations I've had with
the anime crowd. (Everything from the singular obssession of this
years anime hits to the navel gazing cosplay boards) The thing that
hit me like a ton of bricks however was your particularly astute coment
(above). Eek! You're right , it's ugly.
~ Kai /Dawn
_________________
" You must
be the change you wish to see in the world." |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:40 am Post
subject: |
|
|
I like fandom. I like going to cons. I like seeing things through
the eyes of others. I wouldn't rant
if I didn't care, ya'know?
Most of the people I've met at cons and on the boards have been pretty
cool. We may not see eye-to-eye, but we co-exist ok. Theres a few
'special cases', but only a few, really.
Some of us who costume just like the characters. Some of us are show
offs. Some are attention seekers, and others are just plain insane.
So, which one am I?
Yes.
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
| Rosemary
Semi-Official Welcoming Committee
Location: Hamilton, ON, Canada
Age: 37
Gender: Female |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:59 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Silent Bob wrote: |
... Some of us who costume just like the characters.
Some of us are show offs. Some are attention seekers, and others
are just plain insane.
So, which one am I? |
Are you SURE you want to ask that question? 
I'm leaning towards one out of the three ... the one that looks a
little like this  .
_________________
"One of
you is about to say goodbye to high society and
return to your sad existence,
working for the Man."
Ralph (The Smarmy Host), The Joe
Schmo Show |
|
|
| Stillvisions
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Total posts: 20
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 1:12 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
Allright... Here goes...
Maybe your post was deleted because you broke the forum rules. So,
you turn around and flame them only on a different server. Very classy.
Now...
I'm not a cosplayer. Nor will I be. Hell, I barely qualify as a SF/Anime
fan. But...
Cosplayers who complain about being
stared at: Silly complaint. They shouldn't be mistreated, and
I've seen people act genuinely bad toward them. I don't care what
you wear, but that ain't right.
Cosplayers who are trying to be "trendy":
No, that's not it. I could also word it as "cosplayers who aren't
going to dress up as the same thing for five years in a row". Anime,
being a much more active visual genre than SF means that there's always
a new crop of things coming up, so there are those who *gasp* want
to keep things fresh and new. If this wasn't the case, there'd be
an army of Sailor moon cosplayers at AN and little else. I'm glad
AN hasn't fallen into the "stuck in the past" aspect of fandom. There's
a mix of old standards and new shows.
(not to mention there's the challenge of creating a new costume, instead
of wearing the same one repeatedly)
Cosplayers who are pissed nobody gets
their costume: Um, the people I know who were at TT and in
anime costumes were expecting that most people wouldn't know what
their costume was, and were fine about it. In fact, it meant they
could explain it, tell people about it and feel good when the rare
person actually recognized it. I'd say it's dissapointing from time
to time, probably, but I wouldn't say most are pissed about things.
Way to tar the many with the words of the few.
People who write multi-page scathing
con reports, and "go anyway": Sorry, unless you've got plans
for a time machine, I'm not sure about how this can be avoided. Now,
if you're talking about going to the one the year after, well, sometimes
it's a matter of expectations and plans; If you know the con messes
up event X, you don't prep for event X. Or you prep to try and fix
things, something you yourself said they should do.
(Note the number of Anime-related panels this year at TT with new
people on them. I guess they didn't like some things about last year's
anime panels...)
Oh, and you seem to have no problem expressing your negative feelings
about cons you're still going to. That, and you're even better at
expressing your misgivings for fan remarks about a con you didn't
attend, yet seem to feel more than capable of defending.
People who "look down their noses"
at things they don't like: So, what exactly does your posts
slamming other fans qualify as?
People who complain about "non-genre"
costumes at a con: My jury, personally, it out on this one.
I generally follow the policy of "respect earnest effort" (occasionally
I do let loose though) but there are times when I have to take a deep
breath and really think about it. Things generally get added to cons:
from my random history sources tell me Star Trek fans started to hijack
traditional sci-fi cons at the outset, and I'm sure the argument was
the same there. Then again, the Trek fans eventually got their own
cons and turned it around, making their events sci-fi (which was more
than smart considering the lack of much new under the star trek umbrella
for a while). I think the complaints, however, are not about the costumes
being there, but the events. Events that are possibly taking away
time from other more related events. f a Dawson's Creek troupe went
to TT and got prime spots and times for things, you'd probably be
wondering WTF as well...
Anyway you seem to be more than happy to go out and complain about
other people when in fact all you are doing is complaining about other
people. If you're cool with being a hypocrite, that's great. I've
yet to figure out what gives you the right to complain about things
as you see fit but dismiss others' complaints. And if this is your
way of trying to get word out among the AN crew about Toronto trek,
I'd be terrified to see how you dissuade people.
Take care... |
|
|
| Anonymoose
Psychotic Site Administrator
Joined: 24 Sep 2002
Total posts: 1922
Location: Georgetown, ON CANADA
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 1:30 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Stillvisions wrote: |
| I've yet to figure out what gives you the right
to complain about things as you see fit but dismiss others'
complaints. |
I would tend to counter that with commentary that Bob's complaints
also contained suggestions as to how to correct the situation that
he encountered, whereas many of these reviews (I haven't read the
one that Bob was commenting on, in particular) tend to just be rants
without any suggestions of how the con could have fixed their problems.
It's one thing to bitch and complain. It becomes entirely different
when you bitch and complain with suggestions of how to fix the problems
and offer to help.
_________________
|
|
Make Toronto Trek
Part of the Commonwealth
BRING HARPER OR TRANCE TO TT! |
|
|
|
|
| B.O.B.
Location: Etobicoke...
Age: 29
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:24 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Anonymoose wrote: |
| It's one thing to bitch and complain. It becomes
entirely different when you bitch and complain with suggestions
of how to fix the problems and offer to help. |
there's a difference between constructive critism
and destructive critism... regardless if solutions are offered (although,
almost always constructive critism contains solutions... but sometimes
the solutions are so elusive, that just identifying the problem is
all that occurs)
a big difference is the approach of how
you identify a problem to another... I agree with Stillvisions, that
SB's posts in this thread seem a little heavy handed, even though
he only has good intentions... I can see some people being insulted
and lectured to...
I also agree with SB's content... would have reworded it, so it wasn't
as offensive...
conclusion: SB is trying to identify a problem and offer a solution,
through constructive critism... I understand what he's trying to say,
and agree with his points... however, his approach does irk me, because
it does sound a little condescending... and I make this mistake often,
too... I'm working on it...
therefore, I see both sides of the issues between Stillvisions and
SB, understand them, and agree with them...
to quote Rodney Kind 'can't we all
just get along?'
_________________
 Click
to subscribe to Toronto_Fen or send a blank e-mail to toronto_fen-subscribe@yahoogroups.ca
Why are a "wise man" and a "wise guy" opposites? |
|
|
| Rosemary
Semi-Official Welcoming Committee
Location: Hamilton, ON, Canada
Age: 37
Gender: Female |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:30 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
I'm going to comment on two items
only because my "spidey sense" tells me this thread is about to go
to a very bad place soon ...
| Stillvisions wrote: |
| People who write
multi-page scathing con reports, and "go anyway": Sorry,
unless you've got plans for a time machine, I'm not sure about
how this can be avoided. Now, if you're talking about going
to the one the year after, well, sometimes it's a matter of
expectations and plans; If you know the con messes up event
X, you don't prep for event X. Or you prep to try and fix things,
something you yourself said they should do. |
My apologies, and I'm not being personally critical, but your reply
doesn't make a great deal of sense to me.
Are you saying that someone would go to a convention with the FULL
KNOWLEDGE that in the past it didn't meet their needs and try to somehow
make it fit their needs by doing something different, somehow, in
some way? Avoiding the con is one thing but going to an event which
has disappointed you, hoping that it would change and when it doesn't,
complaining ad nauseum seems, well, rather futile. Sometimes you've
just either got to let go of the idea that everything
can meet your personal expectations or stop going to the event.
| Stillvisions wrote: |
| People who complain
about "non-genre" costumes at a con: My jury, personally,
it out on this one. I generally follow the policy of "respect
earnest effort" (occasionally I do let loose though) < snip
> I think the complaints, however, are not about the costumes
being there, but the events. Events that are possibly taking
away time from other more related events. f a Dawson's Creek
troupe went to TT and got prime spots and times for things,
you'd probably be wondering WTF as well ... |
Actually SB was referring to people who openly
mock others costumes and I'll add that I'm referring to people who
openly mock others period. Do you want to know the amount of times
I've heard someone, and unfortunately always in my case, the under
20s crowd jeering other attendees as losers, fat, ugly, and my personal
favourite retarded. The sad part is that I'm hearing-impaired so you
can imagine that the comments aren't made sotto voce if I could hear
them. I'm glad that you hang with a better crowd but believe me, I've
been attending TT since #2 and you ain't seen nothing when it comes
to fans being mean to other fans.
(And I like your reference to the fact that Science Fiction fans felt
that Star Trek fans "ruined" fandom ... bwa ha ha ha ... fans treating
each other badly goes a long way back.)
_________________
"One of
you is about to say goodbye to high society and
return to your sad existence,
working for the Man."
Ralph (The Smarmy Host), The Joe
Schmo Show
Last edited by Rosemary on Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:37 pm; edited 1 time
in total |
|
|
| Eleryth
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Total posts: 38
Location: Ontario
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:31 pm Post
subject: Anou... |
|
|
I tried my bestest to not get
involved, but I figure why not? ^^ More fun!
I have a webpage, and I rant
on it. I don't dare call it a "review" of a convention, b/c I cannot
maintain an unbiased opinion. IMHO, a friend of mine does that very
well, for me (well, us...). ^^ He's a lot more unbiased than I am.
Also, as for the younger people... they're young. And they don't know
any better. I know I like to think I was way more mature at 16, but
in reality, I probably wasn't.
I know that being young is no excuse, so why don't we try to help
them? If you hear them bashing something, ask them to stop, and so
on. Suggest to them to become panelists. They're not going to know,
and probably think that they have to be someone special (as in, have
certain qualifications, not just an avid fan knowledge) to be on one
(this is, in fact, what I thought, until visiting the TT17 website,
and decided I'd be one too, and actually got accepted). Anime fans
are so young, and the majority of the fanbase is young, so they have
no mentors to look up to for guidance. And sometimes, we older people
can be just as...immature?... as the young ones. I know I certainly
am. :Þ
Also, they're probably not used to taking responsibility for things.
Most are there without adult supervision, with parents paying for
hotel rooms who aren't necessarily there themselves. No one is policing
their behaviour.
At least I'm not blaming violence on TV!
As for the costume issues - outright staring (and catcalling/commenting)
at a costumer in a skimpier/sexier costume is not cool. So why would
the costumer wear it? Maybe because running around at a con with a
bunch of friends having a great time negates the fact that they don't
normally dress like that. That there are other people in skimpy costumes,
so you don't have to feel alone. And that no one looks at you as a
freak for dressing up because costumes abound.
As for the lack of recognition? That happens everywhere. I wore a
costume last year to TT, and I was surprised at how few people actually
knew who I was... I wasn't even a HUGE fan of the series, just a fan,
and I could have guessed. That was disappointing... but I got over
it, realising that just b/c it's a sci fi con, doesn't mean that everyone
there is going to know who all the sci fi characters are. But we all
know this. ^^ I have only one semi-recognizable costume this year...
and by that, people will be able to tell what I am, just not who ...the
others are off the wall unknown (including a literary chara! whee!).
Ok, I think I've ranted long enough. I'm in a fun-debate-y mood...
maybe i'll go check out 10 FAD...
~e
Also, quick question. SB, I dont understand your post about which
anime you like.... are you listing off the shows you watch, or the
shows you consider trendy? I'm guessing it's what you watch.... am
I right? *oh please let me be right!! I'm usually so off base... o.O* |
|
|
Momijizukamori
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
Total posts: 59
Location: Kingston
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:40 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Anonymoose wrote: |
| Stillvisions wrote: |
| I've yet to figure out what gives you
the right to complain about things as you see fit but
dismiss others' complaints. |
I would tend to counter that with commentary that Bob's complaints
also contained suggestions as to how to correct the situation
that he encountered, whereas many of these reviews (I haven't
read the one that Bob was commenting on, in particular) tend
to just be rants without any suggestions of how the con could
have fixed their problems.
It's one thing to bitch and complain. It becomes entirely different
when you bitch and complain with suggestions of how to fix the
problems and offer to help. |
So... who is going to fix the things? Who is reading this? Last I
checked there wasn't a strong presence of jailbait primadonnas running
around the TT boards to take suggestions to Heed.
_________________
"I'm sorry. I only date two dimensional men. You have a third dimension
I just don't know what to do with." |
|
| Author |
Message |
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:58 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
He He He.
I think I hit a nerve with someone there Dave.
Ah! No wonder. This was one of my visits. I remember this site fondly.
| Quote: |
From http://www.stillvisions.com/events/TT16/TT5.htm
So I'll start with the constants: the panels. We went to the
"Why Fanfic?" panel. I think it should have been titled "Kirk
and Spock: Why God WHY?!?", but that's just me. Actually, the
panel was nice: people had a discussion, and everything went
off quite nicely. It disturbs me that Kirk/Spock fanfic is still
popular after all these years; you'd figure by now they'd have
run out of positions or exclamations to make, but apparently
not.
The other panel was "The Many Faces of Anime". It should have
been titled "The Many Faces of Anime, as long as they're the
most mass-produced stuff out there".
When the most obscure anime mentioned by the panel was Bubblegum
Crisis, the variety implied by the panel title just wasn't there.
The panel was more centred around whether Ruronin Kenshin loses
it's historical perspective and philosophical depth when dubbed.
I'm not kidding. I'll be ranting in this direction in a bit...
Oh, that and the panel was delayed by about 20 minutes (meaning
the panel was only half as long as it should have been). Why?
Because some weird-ass trippy 70s anime was on screen. At our
stage of sleep dep, it was pretty funny, though. Can't remember
the title, though; I'd never heard of it before...
|
Heh. I remember being on that panel...and wondering just WTF we were
held up for that 20 min for that crap cartoon, and then denied the
full time as the room -had- to be closed....never mind we hung out
there for like an hour+ afterwards since there was no other events
going on. Trust me here kiddo, you weren't the only one unhappy with
certain aspects of the panel.
| Quote: |
| I went up the elevator to the room; the hotel
hallway smelled of gamer funk. Terrible gamer funk. The sort
of smell you don't have to experience: just see the sad look
in the eyes of the witness and realize that some part of their
soul died that day. That bad. At least yesterday the hall just
reeked of pot... |
Ok, so you bitch n rant
in an epic report, yet, I see no 'solutions' there.
I did suggest super-soakers with deoderant, but was told it would
violate certain rules. We've settles on the 'green tree' award where
we pass out those little car fresheners to the most offensive blokes.
| Quote: |
So off to our first panel of the day: the tail
end of "Masquerades: What to do and what not to do". We came
in to the point where people were trying to outdo each other's
masq stories. Fun.
What we were really there for was the anime panel, headed by
someone dressed as...
Jem.
I didn't get it either.
Anyway, the panel was Hijacked by Sarcasm Hime (who emerged
like a phoenix from the ashes of the masq seminar), and not
a moment too soon. Sorry, but a Jem character should not be
the sole spokesperson for an anime panel. Maybe a costuming
panel for dead 80s cartoons, but not anime.
The panel was cool; Hime frightened Jem into silence and then
it was just people swapping ideas on how to achieve the impossible
hair and outfits of anime. Worth listening to, and no worries
about debates on how to make your Batleth the biggest.
|
Now, I wasn't at this particular panel, however I do know the gal
who'se doing the whole JEM thing. She used to run one of the more
active anime clubs in WNY, has gotten numerous awards in the Masq.
over the years, and happens to be busting her ass fufilling a dream
at the moment.
Again, I see complaints, but no solutions.
What panels are you -ON- this year?
What solutions have you offered towards fixing your percieved issues?
Now, before anyone (besides Stills up there) thinks I'm doing a hack
here, let me be clear....the websites nice, and there is a lot of
good things there. I do happen to agree with many comments. I also
disagree with a few. Thats normal.
1 thing:
You asked:
| Quote: |
| I've yet to figure out what gives you the right
to complain about things as you see fit but dismiss others'
complaints. And if this is your way of trying to get word out
among the AN crew about Toronto trek, I'd be terrified to see
how you dissuade people. |
To point a- over 15 years of con attendence, volentierin, and being
involved with fanclubs including running 3 independent clubs, being
involved with a 'StarFleet' chapter and 2 KAG chapters. I haven't
dismissed others complaints, I do however challenge them to do more
then just bitch.
As to point b- If my good looks, ready with and smooth charm fail
me, I fall back to my arnisador training and go head hunting. I go
through alot of rattan some weeks.
Now, 1 -serious- point - Mistreating cosplayers. If you feel you are
being mistreated, find a security type person and point out the offender.
That means the perv who keep staring at your butt (from 3 inches away),
the drooler who follows you everywhere, the idiot who wants to know
if that bodypaint is edible, etc. -NO- fan should be made to feel
uncomfortable at a con, and I'll be the first guy tacklin the offender
if it comes down to it.
I goto TT because I had fun there the last few years. I stopped going
to AN because I didn't. Full details have been public on my website
for over a year. AN must be doing something right cuz they keep smashing
attendence records, and I wish em luck to hit 10k. But I read their
board and see the same whiners over n over again, and its pathetically
like kindergarden at times. And, it makes it less 'fun' and less interesting.
And, in the end, when the rants, bitching, arguing and other crap
is done, aren't we -all- in it to have fun?
Peace.
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 3:03 pm Post
subject: Re: Anou... |
|
|
| Eleryth wrote: |
| Also, quick question. SB, I dont understand
your post about which anime you like.... are you listing off
the shows you watch, or the shows you consider trendy? I'm guessing
it's what you watch.... am I right? *oh please let me be right!!
I'm usually so off base... o.O* |
Watch. Some are 20 yrs old.
You win a prize.
Now, you have 2 options...you can take door number 1 or number 2.
The actor or actress of your interest is behind the one.
(Aint I a stinker?)
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 3:11 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
CdB is pretty acurate. I'm not
an elegent writer (or great speller for that matter). I sometimes
have all the tact of a pitbull on a caffine n sugar buzz.
Momijizukamori - Are you sure? I don't recall an age check at the
door.
As to costumes at the actual con, there is a reason why the masq.
has the "no costume is no costume" rule. I've seen some pretty interesting
stuff, and heard of even more from way back yonder when TT was still
in the single digits.
Oh, yeah, as to the 'panel' thing...I was focusing on 1 panel, so
honestly didn't even consider signing up for any other ones this year...considering
some stuff I've heard about some of these panels though, I'm afraid
I may be too rounded to fit. (rounded, fat guy, get it? yukyuk yuk..I
kill me.)
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 3:12 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
Ok, All those in favor of doing
a 'SB your a putz' panel, say "EYE"
hehehe.
(Dont worry CdB..I got your seat saved dude.)
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
| B.O.B.
Location: Etobicoke...
Age: 29
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 3:29 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Silent Bob wrote: |
Ok, All those in favor of doing a 'SB your a
putz' panel, say "EYE"
hehehe.
(Dont worry CdB..I got your seat saved dude.) |
well, you may be a putz... but you do have
some interesting points... just like a lot of those 'review' sites
you were referring to (although I doubt we both seen exactly the same
ones)...
sometimes, they're a little heavy-handed.. but they still have valid
points anyway... the approach needs some work...
it's just like what we had earlier this year whem James Marsters had
to cancel... some registered their disappointment with calmness, so
that we may all comfort each other in our time of need (like the Columbia
incident), and some vented their disappointment with anger and frustration...
each of us react differently... all we can ask, is for everyone to
be considerate...
and I enjoy reading/hearing feedback... especially the kudos... those
are even more important because we hear them so rarely, and they get
lost in the plethora of what we did wrong...
_________________
Click
to subscribe to Toronto_Fen or send a blank e-mail to toronto_fen-subscribe@yahoogroups.ca
Why are a "wise man" and a "wise guy" opposites? |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 3:35 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
hehehe...I need to get some of
that stuff that foams....get a shirt that says "TTMB PitBull" and
wander the halls foaming at the mouth....
Oh....you said "CuDo's....hmm...ah
here ya go...from yours truely, last year.
| Quote: |
Sunday:
Sunday was a race to finish checking out of the hotel. That
late bed time thing. Headed back to the Regal (Did I mention
we’re staying there next year?) and hit the art room to see
what we got. Wandered around a bit, hit the dealers room for
a final pass, and then watched some vids in the video room.
At 4 was time for our panel, and I think it went pretty good.
The previous video ran late (what kinda crack was that anyway?)
and killed about 15 min from it which wasn’t too cool. But there
were about 15 people in there and it was a lot more fun than
I thought it would be. We spent some time chatting with Dave
Greenlaw and some folks from Anime North. All in all, we didn’t
leave the hotel until about 730pm.
All in all, it was a ton of fun. The quality and quantity of
hall costumes was down from previous years. I have to believe
that 9-11 is part of the cause. I took about 30 pics, mostly
from the masqurade and will have them up soon. I’ve missed a
bunch of things here. Too much to write, it was just too much
fun.
A Definate "WELL DONE!" to con-com, and especially those folks
mentioned for making this the most fun I've had in years. Its
definately reignited the fan in my heart.
|
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
Momijizukamori
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
Total posts: 59
Location: Kingston
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 4:08 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Silent Bob wrote: |
Momijizukamori - Are you sure? I don't recall an age check at
the door.
|
Pretty Sure.
While there's no age on the door, I tend to know most of the regular
(those who have been around for 3 or more years/ have an online presence)
cosplayers from AN and CNA by face, (even in costume) first/Real name,
or am part of one cosplay-group or mailing list or another with them.
And those I don't know or have costumed with *personally*, generally
know someone I know. (Which I found out delightfully just the other
night actually. But that's getting off topic.)
And they(if they KNOW about TT) for SOME reason, seem to think that
the science-fiction people look down at them because of their age/anime
likes.
If anyone besides me, and the two others I know from here have read
it lately, I'm sure that belief has just been solidified.
And no doubt without the 'constructiveness' in which it was 'apparently'
intended. They Do seem to know that they're referred to as Primadonnas
and Jailbait, yet don't really seem to know Why.
Funny That.
Might be the insults and offensiveness in how it's said?
Always kind of defeats the noble purpose in My experience.
You know, IF they were actually lurking around here in any numbers.
_________________
"I'm sorry. I only date two dimensional men. You have a third dimension
I just don't know what to do with." |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 4:35 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
I don't look down on them due
to age/anime likes.
I do however have very little patience for certain behaviors.
If you cant be part of the sollution, you are part of the problem.
This is not aimed at you, its a blanket statement.
If you had taken a moment to examine my website, you'll find I'm not
a 'scifier'.
Lets look at my site a sec huh?
Nephrites' Citadel (named after an anime character)
http://rustaz.com
Cosplay section:
5 scifi/fantasy cons (all TT)
5 anime cons (AN and CNA) are listed.
Fanfic Section:
5 part Sailor Moon fanfic (writen by me)
Personal Info page:
Interests (in order):
Daria (TV show)
Pro-Wrestling
Anime (Japanimation is Great!)
Sci-Fi in general
Babylon 5
Star-Trek (TOS) (TNG) (DS9)
Before a server crash last Dec. My forums actually had more anime
content, and were the home of -3- anime clubs.
I am an anime fan. I have a problem with those who do not know what
went before, have their noses in the air, think their butts dont stink,
and cant remember to wear underwear under a miniskirt, then complain
about the 'perverts' gawking at em because 'they are only 15'.
I would like nothing better than to myself feel welcome at these events,
however, that isn't the case. The catering to the 'pokemon' generation,
as well as the actions by a few -idiots- *(note, I am not refering
to you, but those same people who also pissed you and your friends
off) has turned me off majorly from many events.
I go out to have fun. When you hear the 'whats that?' with the nose
in the air and the lothing in the voice, it hurts even the most diehard
of fan.
So, to answer the question : Are young fans welcome at TT?
Most certainly. I look forward to their attendence. I especially like
seeing their eagerness, and new ideas. Fresh blood is what makes this
fun for us all.
Its just a matter of some manners, some common sence, and, sone maturity.
Items lacking across the board.
Peace.
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
Kaijugal
Joined: 20 May 2003
Total posts: 204
Location: Far away MONSTER ISLAND
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 8:07 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
So off to our first panel of the day: the tail
end of "Masquerades: What to do and what not to do". We came
in to the point where people were trying to outdo each other's
masq stories. Fun.
What we were really there for was the anime panel, headed by
someone dressed as...
Jem.
I didn't get it either.
Anyway, the panel was Hijacked by Sarcasm Hime (who emerged
like a phoenix from the ashes of the masq seminar), and not
a moment too soon. Sorry, but a Jem character should not be
the sole spokesperson for an anime panel. Maybe a costuming
panel for dead 80s cartoons, but not anime.
The panel was cool; Hime frightened Jem into silence and then
it was just people swapping ideas on how to achieve the impossible
hair and outfits of anime. |
Who wrote this? It's extremely ignorant point of view. Why would you
put Sandy down as an anime panelist just because she's dressed like
Jem? (Yes her name is Sandy.) Does the fact that Jem is her favorite
hall costume negate the fact that she is
a qualifed guest speaker in your eyes? That's extremely shallow. If
Go Nagai was sitting there in a baseball jersey, would you say, "who's
the baseball jerk? I want someone who really represents anime!". *sighs*
Was there more to it that that? If so what?
_________________
" You must
be the change you wish to see in the world."
Last edited by Kaijugal on Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:33 pm; edited 1 time
in total |
|
|
Kaijugal
Joined: 20 May 2003
Total posts: 204
Location: Far away MONSTER ISLAND
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 8:27 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
[quote="Momijizukamori"]
| Silent Bob wrote: |
Momijizukamori - Are you sure? I don't recall an age check at
the door.
|
Pretty Sure.
While there's no age on the door, I tend to know most of the regular
(those who have been around for 3 or more years/ have an online presence)
cosplayers from AN and CNA by face, (even in costume) first/Real name,
or am part of one cosplay-group or mailing list or another with them.
And those I don't know or have costumed with *personally*, generally
know someone I know. (Which I found out delightfully just the other
night actually. But that's getting off topic.)
And they(if they KNOW about TT) for
SOME reason, seem to think that the science-fiction people look down
at them because of their age/anime likes.
[quote]
Do you know who I am?
If you do you know that it's crazy to say that Sci-Fi and Trek people
hate anime fans for thier age or any reason.
I think I know who you are, Were you the girl dressed as Kijin in
the masquerade?
I know alot of anime people come to Trek. Claiming that "Science Fiction
People" look down on them is a broad and hurtful statement. Hasn't
anyone noticed that alot of the key staff memebers at Trek are THE
SAME staff members at Anime North and sometimes CNA?
I like sci-fi. I like Anime. Hell I probably discoverd them the same
year when my dad plonked me down in front to the TV the first time.
LOL! Fandom tends to cross pollenate. You could know a Animefan-Wargamer-Millitary
Historian, a Lovecraftian-Trekkie-Cosplayer, a Fanfic Writing-Filking-Furry
or anything in between. Claiming that any "element" in fandom hates
any other element is just crazy. There will always be some crossover.
_________________
" You must
be the change you wish to see in the world." |
|
|
| SID
Clue-By-Four Administrator
|
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 8:30 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Kaijugal wrote: |
| Quote: |
So off to our first panel of the day:
the tail end of "Masquerades: What to do and what not
to do". We came in to the point where people were trying
to outdo each other's masq stories. Fun.
What we were really there for was the anime panel, headed
by someone dressed as...
Jem.
I didn't get it either.
Anyway, the panel was Hijacked by Sarcasm Hime (who emerged
like a phoenix from the ashes of the masq seminar), and
not a moment too soon. Sorry, but a Jem character should
not be the sole spokesperson for an anime panel. Maybe
a costuming panel for dead 80s cartoons, but not anime.
The panel was cool; Hime frightened Jem into silence and
then it was just people swapping ideas on how to achieve
the impossible hair and outfits of anime. |
Who wrote this? It's extremely ignorant point of view. Why would
you put Sandy down as an anime panelist just because she's dressed
like Jem? (Yes her name is Sandy.) Does the fact that Jem is
her favorite hall costume negate the fact that she is
a qualifed guest speaker in your eyes? That's extremely shallow.
If Go Nagai was sitting there in a baseball jersey, would you
say, "who's the baseball jerk? I want someone who really represents
anime!". *sighs* |
I had a hunch, but I found it... This report can be found on the StillVisions
Site here: http://www.stillvisions.com/events/TT16/tt3.htm
I was a panelist in that same exact panel and had the pleasure of
finally putting a face to the names of a few people I met to do that
panel. In all honesty, I don't know how I managed to get on the panel,
but I guess it was for the schtick factor - and a chance to not be
on duty for an hour
But, I would like to know what was so offensive that we as panelists
did to raise the ire of the author of the report - but given the tongue
in cheek (I hope that is the intent) nature of the report, I am not
too concerned. I just hope that the author understands its one thing
to snap a whole bunch of pics and report about only a few things,
as opposed to volunteering at TT and putting in time at panels as
well. It's kinda funny, but the skit stories were great, because where
else are people going to have the chance to relate to others who understand?
Anyway, I think I am done now ... I think ...
Sid
_________________
|
|
|
Kaijugal
Joined: 20 May 2003
Total posts: 204
Location: Far away MONSTER ISLAND
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 8:38 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the info Sid. I looked at the site and am completely suprised
at the source. I've met the people who are featured on that site and
I've always thought them to be terrific fans. I'm very dissapointed
that the author of the site is negative on a few points. 
I guess everyone makes mistakes.
To put a positive spin on the whole issue, here's a very astute comment
from the same author/site:
| Quote: |
| I'm always curious of those who are overly critical
of acts within the masquerade. Especially when these people
waited in line for two hours only to say how much they don't
like it. Figure it out folks. |
LOL! Ain't it the truth?
_________________
" You must
be the change you wish to see in the world."
Last edited by Kaijugal on Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:38 pm; edited 2 times
in total |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 8:44 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Kaijugal wrote: |
| Who wrote this? It's extremely ignorant point
of view. Why would you put Sandy down as an anime panelist just
because she's dressed like Jem? (Yes her name is Sandy.) Does
the fact that Jem is her favorite hall costume negate the fact
that she is a qualifed
guest speaker in your eyes? That's extremely shallow. If Go
Nagai was sitting there in a baseball jersey, would you say,
"who's the baseball jerk? I want someone who really represents
anime!". *sighs* |
They say enlightenment strikes when not expected.
The lotus blossom blooms here : http://www.stillvisions.com/
Meditate with me now on the mysteries of :"Tae Kwon Leep"
Ommmmmmmm
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
| Eleryth
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Total posts: 38
Location: Ontario
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 9:04 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
quote : Thanks for the info Sid.
I looked at the site and am completely suprised at the source. I've
met the people who are featured on that site and I've always thought
them to be terrific fans. I'm very dissipointed.
I guess everyone makes mistakes. /quote
I certainly hope you are not directing that comment at the people
in the photos on his site, or that you are disappointed just because
they happen to be his friends.
Kev does all his writing by himself. It's his page, with his opinions,
and those opinions should in no way influence your opinion of his
friends. (lots of opinions
) He writes sarcastically, enjoys using stereotypes to make a point,
and with a certain sense of humor. I don't think there is a single
review site out there that is completely unbiased whatsoever. If his
writing has offended you, please do not take it out on the people
he may or may not be associated with.
Unfortunately, I haven't been to many panels. And none of the ones
being discussed, so I do not have any authority to comment on those.
I guess my point is this... those people "featured" on the site, IMHO,
are terrific fans. Interests that cross genres (right word?). And
we're all learning about getting more involved, but it's rather hard
to do when not living in TO or immediate area and on a student's budget.
But that's me, and since I know them, it's bound to be a biased opinion.
I just got a little upset when my friends got insulted for no act
of theirs, other than have a friend who used their pics. That's all.
/end rant
*whew!* I feel sooooooo much better!! I guess that was all pent up
frustration energy after work, dealing with difficult people. Thanks
for listening. None of it was meant as personal attacks, and if you
feel it was so, please msg me and I'll edit my post. Thanks! ^^
Hm. I wonder what to have for dinner.... |
|
|
| SID
Clue-By-Four Administrator
|
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 9:14 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Eleryth wrote: |
I certainly hope you are not directing that comment at the people
in the photos on his site, or that you are disappointed just
because they happen to be his friends. <snip> |
Oh dear, another hornets nest...
Never, I would never, never
intend to offend or insinuate such in my commentary there... never.
Nobody there would deserve it. I know the authour too, he and I talked
in K-W for a while for a private gathering... However the particular
tone displayed in that report left a little to be desired considering
some of the very interesting and creative things he can do. I dunno.
Either way, my sincere appologies if anyone is offended by my post,
I was just a bit caught off guard in regards to the article going
a bit too far in the sarcasm-o-metre , imho
I guess once in a while, we all suffer foot-in-mouth disease. But
it's one thing to deny having it, and another to seek treatment. I
hope this post was the appropriate remedy.
_________________
|
|
| View
previous topic :: View
next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 9:15 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
Eleryth,
I hold no malace towards that site, anyone on it, etc. To be honest,
I loved their skits and costumes, and agreed more often than disagreed
with the comments made on there.
Its my personal hope at some point, at some con to meet all of the
more enthusiastic fans, and swap ideas, etc.
I think we share much more than we do not.
I use humor, sarcasm, misdirection, and contradiction to get points
out, even at the risk of myself appearing to be a pretzle, salty on
the outside and my head lodged firmly up my posterier.
We are a family, abet, a disfunctional one, but still.
Peace.
As to whats for dinner...I'd offer my heart, but I traded that away
for a cookie (chockolete chip) and a large frapachino, and my livers
no good unless ya got some fava beans and a nice chiante... Try Subway,
the sandwiches are faboo!
(I'm in a good mood tonite....)
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
Oselle
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Total posts: 206
Location: Guelph
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 9:46 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Kaijugal wrote: |
Thanks for the info Sid. I looked at the site and am completely
suprised at the source. I've met the people who are featured
on that site and I've always thought them to be terrific fans.
I'm very dissipointed.
I guess everyone makes mistakes.
|
Whoa! I'm hoping that I've grossly misunderstood what you mean by
that...could you clarify, please? I don't want to react harshly and
start making assumptions - but having been "featured" on that site
more than once, I'm not sure how I should respond. Or do you mean
that you feel some of the criticisms of fans and manifestations of
fandom were undeserved? The latter I do understand, and I can see
why you'd be upset by it.
I guess I struggle here because a slight double-standard seems to
be popping up. Why is it okay for some people to use sarcasm (etc.)
to get a point across, and for others it is not? I'm not looking for
an answer to that question, though, perhaps I just want to urge a
general caution re: making assumptions about people, their friends,
and their motivations.
Happy fandom!
_________________
"Do it big, do it right, do it with style." (Fred Astaire) |
|
|
| B.O.B.
Location: Etobicoke...
Age: 29
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 9:49 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| SID wrote: |
| Eleryth wrote: |
| I certainly hope you are not directing
that comment at the people in the photos on his site,
or that you are disappointed just because they happen
to be his friends. <snip> |
Oh dear, another hornets nest...
Never, I would never,
never intend to offend or insinuate such in my commentary there...
never. Nobody there would deserve it. I know the authour too,
he and I talked in K-W for a while for a private gathering...
However the particular tone displayed in that report left a
little to be desired considering some of the very interesting
and creative things he can do. I dunno.
Either way, my sincere appologies if anyone is offended by my
post, I was just a bit caught off guard in regards to the article
going a bit too far in the sarcasm-o-metre , imho
I guess once in a while, we all suffer foot-in-mouth disease.
But it's one thing to deny having it, and another to seek treatment.
I hope this post was the appropriate remedy. |
you know... the hardest problem I've been having
with my sarcasm on the internet, is that it's so hard to indicate
that it's sarcasm...
there's no intonation to go with the words...
no gestures/body language...
nothing to indicate it's sarcasm... and because of that, people become
easily offended when they don't see the 'tongue in cheek' comments
as such...
recommendation: anyone wishing to use sarcasm, feel free to use the
smileys on the Board... they can communicate your feelings/thoughts...
on your sites, add a disclaimer that the reader has to see... although,
it would be preferred at the end, error on the side of caution and
put it at the beginning... that way, they'll see it for what it is...
your title can also help the reader not interpret it as just a rant...
anyhow... that's just mho... now go out and have fun... and stop sitting
there in front of the computer... I mean it... go... the father has
spoken... git...
_________________
Click
to subscribe to Toronto_Fen or send a blank e-mail to toronto_fen-subscribe@yahoogroups.ca
Why are a "wise man" and a "wise guy" opposites? |
|
|
| Eleryth
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Total posts: 38
Location: Ontario
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 9:51 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| No, no no, no harm, no foul!
Sid and SB, the comment was not directed at either of you. I just
felt... a bit upset after reading what Kaijugal wrote, and I didn't
know how to respond. Oselle seems to have done a better job at it
than I! : ) |
|
|
| B.O.B.
Location: Etobicoke...
Age: 29
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 9:52 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
BTW, Sid... your sig reminds
me of the cliche keep your friends
close, and your enemies closer
however, it's not until you let it get away from you, that it turns
on you, and will never be your friend anymore...
but you'll both spend the rest of your life, bonded by it's explosive
love for you...
hmmm... I think I've had g/f's like that... 
_________________
Click
to subscribe to Toronto_Fen or send a blank e-mail to toronto_fen-subscribe@yahoogroups.ca
Why are a "wise man" and a "wise guy" opposites? |
|
|
Momijizukamori
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
Total posts: 59
Location: Kingston
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 9:55 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Kaijugal wrote: |
| Do you know who I am?
If you do you know that it's crazy to say that Sci-Fi and Trek
people hate anime fans for thier age or any reason. |
By reputation, and brief meeting, yep.
I should probably annote that to be 'younger' fans. You didn't exactly
come across as 'jailbait' when I chatted with you. I was more specifically
thinking of the various cosplay groups out there, all of whome I know
to some level and have chatted with/slept-over-at/shared lone-star-chips-with.
(WUSS-tatchi, Shinigami Angel cosplay, SMA, Yuki.Ami. FoTA-tatchi,
PFG, Limestone cosplay and their associates from Guelph, Limu/lime
productions, CALLAC uh. 'no-Name brand', Shiny Happy People...) and
a LOT of them are people who SB might have mistaken as 'jailbait'
or primadonnas.
I KNOW most of them don't come here, because the three people I Know
from this board, and me, are generally the ones who pass on information
to them.
And I agree. I had nothing but Fun at TT. BUT I've lost track of how
many times I've had to tell people that it's OK to wear an Anime costume
at TT, or Yes, there are anime things to do, and No, it's NOT just
a trek con. No they aren't going to be mean if you dress in Anime.
No, Video games are ok too.
Example From my ICQ history:
"Is Toronto Trek just sci-fi stuff?
is there any anime going on there?
have u been to TT b4?"
And this is from someone I just started talking to the other day.
Several of us have been trying to get our friends to come along this
year and *each and every time* And I'm seriously NOT exagerating,
at least one person in whatever group/clique asked us if Anime was
Ok, or "I dun really like StarTrek" or "Yeah. They call us a bunch
of stupid anime kiddies." or "They don't like Anime." Or just assume
they're dumb or stupid or don't know japanese *because* they're young
and 'happy'. Personal experience with the last one, at TT lastyear.
So. That's been My experience trying to convince people to come along.
Yes, it's wrong and based on mostly-false information. No, I don't
think a lot of them realize that it's a lot of the same organizers.
I think SMA said they'd come because Gord was hosting the Masq.
Most of em don't pay that much attention unless they have an associate
to link.
But it doesn't really change the fact that DO feel unwelcomed, they
think that people are going to look down on them simply because they're
anime, and I think that this whole thing with SB ranting just goes
to enfore those opinions.
| Kaijugal wrote: |
| I think I know who you are, Were you the girl
dressed as Kijin in the masquerade? |
Yep.
| Kaijugal wrote: |
I know alot of anime people come to Trek. Claiming
that "Science Fiction People" look down on them is a broad and
hurtful statement. Hasn't anyone noticed that alot of the key
staff memebers at Trek are THE SAME staff members at Anime North
and sometimes CNA?
|
It is a broad and hurtful statement. But anymore so then calling people
jailbait primadonas? Or generally being insulting to a group of people
because of their age/the board/Con they go to?
I agree, there are some stupid people out there, but then coming here
and ranting about it offensivly isn't going to make it better. What
THOSE people lack are manners and a common sense of courtasy. And
the Mods/admit shoudl TELL them that or smack em upside the head.
But I can say that I know people who Think that they aren't going
to be welcomed, and recent tirades on this board only Enforce that
misconception. And they're sci-fi fans too. Some of them got all excited
because they would have somewhere to wear that Hobbit or Legolas costume
they really wanted to make, but didn't want to wear it to AN.
They know that Sci-fi people call them kiddies, primadonnas, jailbait
and decide not to come/plan for it. I've been working at getting people
to come since BEFORE AN, and a whopping whole 3, plus SMA will probably
show up. And I know a Lot of people in that age bracket of Cosplay.
They're friends I've gone to coffee/dinner with, shopping for fabric,
done skits with, favours, painting of costume pieces, opinions on
skits and such. ect. They ask ME these things, because I keep my head
poked into various places to keep up on their news and keep in the
loop.
How do I say "No, no, it's cool. Come and have fun. People are nice,
they'll like your costume!" when people end up saying hurtful things
about my friends/friendly rivals, when I'm not sure anymore if they're
not exactly Wrong.
_________________
"I'm sorry. I only date two dimensional men. You have a third dimension
I just don't know what to do with." |
|
|
Kaijugal
Joined: 20 May 2003
Total posts: 204
Location: Far away MONSTER ISLAND
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 9:58 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Eleryth wrote: |
| Kev does all his writing by himself. It's his
page, with his opinions, and those opinions should in no way
influence your opinion of his friends. (lots of opinions
) He writes sarcastically, enjoys using stereotypes to make
a point, and with a certain sense of humor. I don't think there
is a single review site out there that is completely unbiased
whatsoever. If his writing has offended you, please do not take
it out on the people he may or may not be associated with. |
Overall I like the site although there are some parts that would be
quite discouraging to people who volunteer their time to make these
cons work.
I don't intend to take anything out on anyone. I'm a little more centered
than that. LOL!
Thanks for your input!
~ Dawn
_________________
" You must
be the change you wish to see in the world." |
|
|
| Rosemary
Semi-Official Welcoming Committee
Location: Hamilton, ON, Canada
Age: 37
Gender: Female |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:14 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
*carefully peaks into the thread*
Seems there are a lot of hurt feelings here.
I find it interesting that the non SF/F/AN folk scorn and ridicule
us and instead of banding together, we have internal strife around
the various "factions".
I hope someday we'll get it right and cherish each other's individualness
without having to exactly agree with each other's perspectives.
Seems to me there's enough people on this planet hating each other.
*slinks away quietly*
_________________
"One of
you is about to say goodbye to high society and
return to your sad existence,
working for the Man."
Ralph (The Smarmy Host), The Joe
Schmo Show |
|
|
Kaijugal
Joined: 20 May 2003
Total posts: 204
Location: Far away MONSTER ISLAND
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:15 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Oselle wrote: |
Whoa! I'm hoping that I've grossly misunderstood what you mean
by that...could you clarify, please? I don't want to react harshly
and start making assumptions - but having been "featured" on
that site more than once, I'm not sure how I should respond.
Or do you mean that you feel some of the criticisms of fans
and manifestations of fandom were undeserved? The latter I do
understand, and I can see why you'd be upset by it.
I guess I struggle here because a slight double-standard seems
to be popping up. Why is it okay for some people to use sarcasm
(etc.) to get a point across, and for others it is not? I'm
not looking for an answer to that question, though, perhaps
I just want to urge a general caution re: making assumptions
about people, their friends, and their motivations.
Happy fandom! |
I had noticed that you were on the webbie quite a bit.
I was supprised that you hadn't chimed in sooner on this thread. (particularly
at the "anime people feel that sci-fi people look down on them" part)
-------------
To clarify, I meant that everyone makes statements sometimes (regarding
events, people, etc), not knowing the whole story. Even me, even people
I like. Yes some of the criticisms were undeserved.
Perfect example. I wasn't sure if Kevin was writing completely himeself
or not. Either way, it was meant to be a forgive and forget type of
statement. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm just not always particularly
eloquent.
_________________
" You must
be the change you wish to see in the world." |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:15 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
I call almost anyone younger
than me 'kid'. (It -really- pisses off my GF sometimes)
Look, heres a thought....
If they are concerned they are gonna get laughed at, etc, point them
at the following sites:
http://rustaz.com
(I'm a putz, but, I am an anime fan, and do have anime cospics up)
http://scifipics.com
http://supersailormoon.com
They are more than welcome to be at TT. Anyone who says otherwise
has missed more than a few points here.
Peace.
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
| Stillvisions
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Total posts: 20
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:19 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
Thanks Eleryth... was about to
come in and say the same thing.
My report, my words, not theirs. You won't even see me in that report,
but I'll gladly walk up and say hi. There's a few people on this panel
who can point me out if they wish. Hell, at the time I took the pics
the site didn't even exist, and there was no idea at the time I was
going to write the report. Come to think of it, the event report was
a spontaneous accident in writing...
*ahem*
Okay SB, so where's the constructive critiscm when you call fans a
bunch of loonies? Or by saying "if you don't like it, change it" are
you covering that base everytime you say it?
As for my lack of constructive critisicm...
My problem with "the many faces of anime": a lack of variety in what
was discussed, especially beyond the mainstream. If you really wish
I can add "maybe they should at least mention less mainstream anime",
but I generally assume enough intelligence in the reader to infer
that being the problem...
...my usual line is that I present qualified critisicm; I don't just
say "that panel sucked", but I explain what I think the problem with
it is. That, in my opinion, is constructive in and of itself.
Oh, and I've done the volunteer thing combined with the pics and report.
Not to be recommended; next year at AN I'll just do the ninja thing.
Besides, I don't recall complaining about the staffing/handling of
the con itself. You guys had that part pretty much down. I did critisize
some of the panel content (four panels, I think), and some of the
attitudes concerning the TT people with younger fans (all tongue in
cheek aside, the anecdote with the person being disgusted with fans
who "just think it's fun" is 100% genuine). I explained what my problem
was with said events. The bit about Jem was a shock reaction to an
anime cosplay panel with one person on it that wasn't dressed as an
anime character. Around a year ago when that was written I was never
expecting it to be seen by that many people, and in retrospect it
is kinda harsh, but it was my honest opinion of the situation.
As for being on a panel, well, the ones I feel remotely qualified
to speak on are full. I won't join a panel to fill space (that one
panel at AN excepted). Besides, most non-expert panels are best done
(IMO) when everyone (panel and audience) gets equal chance to talk
(I rant about that in the
report somewhere).
Oh and for all those who are offended by what I wrote: You guys all
pat SB on the back after he takes a strip off of con-goers, but apparently
that's somehow different since he refuses to actually say directly
who he's got a problem with. If you take my con report that seriously,
well that's your trip, not mine, because I don't exactly take it that
seriously. As an aside, I've repeatedly told people that they should
go to TT as well, as you can also see in the conclusion of my report...
| Quote: |
I'll be back next year: despite my bitching, it was really a
kickass weekend, even for a non-fan like myself.
|
Other bits: Does X number of years give you more license to complain?
Not in my opinion. It does give you some varied points of perspective,
yes, and lets you qualify some of your concerns, but if it's their
first or their 100th con, they still are allowed to have a valid point.
If the complaints were "why isn't the con free?" or "why didn't they
get guest X?" I understand where having a little perspective on things
does give you some qualification; you know the business a little more.
However, stepping up and saying "I've been here longer, ergo you are
wrong" is foolish.
Anyway, if you're offended, be offended with me. If you want to talk
about it, I'll be at TT, probably writing another event report.
Later... |
|
|
Oselle
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Total posts: 206
Location: Guelph
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:26 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Kaijugal wrote: |
I had noticed that you were on the webbie quite a bit.
I was supprised that you hadn't chimed in sooner on this thread.
(particularly at the "anime people feel that sci-fi people look
down on them" part)
|
I explicitly chose to keep quiet on that, actually...I was (am) a
little offended by some of the comments, but I don't think that my
being indignant would resolve any of the debates. Also, being both
a sci-fi and and anime fan, it's hard to look down on myself. Finally,
I see good - and bad - behaviour from both "factions" at the limited
number of cons I've been to, so I'm afraid I got lost in here somewhere.
Not considering myself as belonging exclusively to one group or the
other, I didn't have anything particularly meaningful to add.
| Quote: |
-------------
To clarify, I meant that everyone makes statements sometimes
(regarding events, people, etc), not knowing the whole story.
Even me, even people I like. Yes some of the criticisms were
undeserved.
|
Ahhh. Thanks for that, I appreciate it! Why did I respond so strongly?
Because when I initally read your post, my surprise was more directed
at the "everyone makes mistakes" comment. At first, I interpreted
it as a slight against my association (and friendship!) with the author
of the site in question. But that aside, I don't believe the comments
there are out of line (especially when compared alongside things that
have been said in this thread!). That is, however, a personal opinion
and one I realize not everybody here shares. That's okay too.
_________________
"Do it big, do it right, do it with style." (Fred Astaire) |
|
|
Kaijugal
Joined: 20 May 2003
Total posts: 204
Location: Far away MONSTER ISLAND
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:39 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Momijizukamori wrote: |
| Kaijugal wrote: |
| Do you know who I am?
If you do you know that it's crazy to say that Sci-Fi
and Trek people hate anime fans for thier age or any reason. |
By reputation, and brief meeting, yep.
I should probably annote that to be 'younger' fans. You didn't
exactly come across as 'jailbait' when I chatted with you.
|
| Momijizukamori wrote: |
But it doesn't really change the fact that DO feel unwelcomed,
they think that people are going to look down on them simply
because they're anime, and I think that this whole thing with
SB ranting just goes to enfore those opinions. |
<Grins> Unfortunately there is always someone who's going to
feel that someone else is looking down on them. There might even be.
Luckily the bird can be flipped in any direction. LOL! Now it's time
for:::THE GEEK HIERARCHY! http://www.brunching.com/images/geekchartbig.gif
| Kaijugal wrote: |
I know alot of anime people come to Trek. Claiming
that "Science Fiction People" look down on them is a broad and
hurtful statement. Hasn't anyone noticed that alot of the key
staff memebers at Trek are THE SAME staff members at Anime North
and sometimes CNA?
|
| Momijizukamori wrote: |
| It is a broad and hurtful statement. But anymore
so then calling people jailbait primadonas? Or generally being
insulting to a group of people because of their age/the board/Con
they go to? |
I agree the jailbait comments are uncool. I have to agree that there
are premadonnas, however that's a fact of fandom, and indeed life,
in general. They're just more colourful in anime. <G> But why
poke the wolverine?
It's just like the comments on the anime boards about the klingons.
THey were doing Main Room security at AN because we couldn't get anyone
else to volunteer for that. I'm glad they came, we needed the help.(even
if there was one unfortunatly over rowdy one.) I'm sure they felt
every bit as unwelcome at Anime North so it goes both ways. It takes
people like you and me to change this.
| Momijizukamori wrote: |
How do I say "No, no, it's cool. Come and have
fun. People are nice, they'll like your costume!" when people
end up saying hurtful things about my friends/friendly rivals,
when I'm not sure anymore if they're not exactly Wrong.
|
Unfortunately there will always be people there that say hurtful things.
Fortunately there will always be people who say nice things and/or
enjoy what you're doing. The last part is the the beauty of the fandom.
Come, have fun, be positive and make the fandom more beautiful.
[/url]
_________________
" You must
be the change you wish to see in the world." |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:39 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
Still,
I didn't -target- your site, you, or your friends directly. A few
comments on there did stick in my head. I also wrote the rant
due to other sites, my own experiences, and also, to be a bit 'tongue
in cheek' (Hense the title "Fwee what a bunch of Loonies")
It was -not- meant to be this huge flamethread, or an attack on -anyone-.
The simple fact is, I had a bug up my ass about a few things, chose
to 'let it out', and did so in what I thought was a tongue-in-cheek
manner.
I honestly meant no offence, and had hoped folks would see the humor.
I was wrong. For this, I apologize.
What I wont apologize for is the fact that many people also agreed
with it, and disagreed with it so strongly, that emotions have started
to run wild.
I also won't apologize for anyone reading more into my original post
that was intended.
It was a short, simple rant
about a few points. Love it or hate it, it made you think. I didnt
name any names, or ID any particular site until way in this, and that
only to refute some points. If you see yourself in my comments, maybe
that is a more telling thing.
Many mistakes have been made here... it was assumed I was a 'sci-fier'
- nope, anime fan.
It was assumed that I -hate- AN - nope.
It was assumed I have problems with certain people - again, nope.
It was assumes I have issues with young fans - again, nope.
Paint me any way you wish, love me, hate me, whatever. The simple
fact is, if those folks who are worried so much would take some time,
read some faqs, visit some fan sites related to TT, they may find
a whole new world to enjoy. But, if their only information is through
a narrow focused conduit, busy feeling persecuted and unwanted, then,
perhaps your information is colored by your judgement.
I will repeat this simply: TT wants Anime Fans. And Fantasy Fans.
And maybe even Barny fans. But, please, wear some undies under that
micro-mini skirt, and learn to bend in a ladylike manner, rather than
shooting a moon every 10 feet.
Bah. Humbug. Haveanicedday! Bang Bang!
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
Kaijugal
Joined: 20 May 2003
Total posts: 204
Location: Far away MONSTER ISLAND
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:43 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Oselle wrote: |
| Also, being both a sci-fi and and anime fan,
it's hard to look down on myself. |
BWAHAHAHa Funny. DITTO!
| Oselle wrote: |
| Ahhh. Thanks for that, I appreciate it! Why
did I respond so strongly? Because when I initally read your
post, my surprise was more directed at the "everyone makes mistakes"
comment. At first, I interpreted it as a slight against my association
(and friendship!) with the author of the site in question. |
OOps. I see how you could have thought that. Apologies!
_________________
" You must
be the change you wish to see in the world." |
|
| Author |
Message |
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:50 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
BTW - that 'bend over in a ladylike
manner when wearing mikro-mini skirt' thing?
Yeah, that goes doubly if its a gal in the skirt.
(That is a joke. Please laugh. Are they laughing? No? Damn)
I'm outta here.
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
| Stillvisions
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Total posts: 20
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:02 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
Actually, I wasn't thinking you
were targetting my site or my friends specifically. As for me, well,
I'd look terrible in a Fuku.
I stepped in to defend people who you were addressing who weren't
here, whoever they are. I considered what was being written to be
quite mean-spirited in nature, and coming from me, that says a lot.
If you have that big a beef, say it to the person; don't set up a
straw man to beat up while you preach to the choir.
The rant made me think...
but more about the generation gap in fandom than anything else, and
what the future of fandom will be if enthusiasm and energy is met
with derision.
As for seeing myself in these points:
1) I don't cosplay
2) I could care less about whether people stare at me. That's the
story of my life.
3) I've yet to *go* to any event with a guest there, so nope on that
part too...
But, if having an opinion that disagrees with you makes me a psycho
fan, then yes, I do see myself in it.
*sigh* whatever... |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:09 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
Ya know..I gotta start labeling
this stuff better....
**sigh**
I could try to explain, but yet again be misconstrued.
sarcasm and such are a lost art it seems.
You are welcome to your opinion. It seems mine only makes me the 'bad
guy'.
Scotty, Beam me up.
sarcasm/
I really can't wait to see what responce my next bit gets....We'll
have the 'lobster heads' fighting it out with the 'magic girls' over
who gets to kill me first. /sarcasm
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
Kaijugal
Joined: 20 May 2003
Total posts: 204
Location: Far away MONSTER ISLAND
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:20 pm Post
subject: . |
|
|
[quote="Stillvisions"]Allright...
Here goes...
People who complain about "non-genre"
costumes at a con: Then again, the Trek fans eventually got
their own cons and turned it around, making their events sci-fi (which
was more than smart considering the lack of much new under the star
trek umbrella for a while). I think the complaints, however, are not
about the costumes being there,
but the events. Events that are possibly taking away time from other
more related events. f a Dawson's Creek troupe went to TT and got
prime spots and times for things, you'd probably be wondering WTF
as well...
[quote]
It did happen! Doesn't anyone
remember THE LEGEND OF KUNG FU year? Or the Forever Night year? (Red
Alert! We are being invaded by goths!) LOL!
Personally I LOVE goths.
[/i]
_________________
" You must
be the change you wish to see in the world." |
|
|
| B.O.B.
Location: Etobicoke...
Age: 29
Gender: Male |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:22 pm Post
subject: Re: . |
|
|
| Kaijugal wrote: |
It did
happen! Doesn't anyone remember THE LEGEND OF KUNG FU year?
Or the Forever Night year? (Red Alert! We are being invaded
by goths!) LOL!
Personally I LOVE goths.
[/i] |
Me too....they taste like Chicken.
Hmm...crickets..... touch crowd.... Hmm... wonder which is worse...klingon
or narn opera....
The procedeing 2 statements were meant in jest. No actual chickens
were harmed in the making of this flop.
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
| B.O.B.
Location: Etobicoke...
Age: 29
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:23 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Silent Bob wrote: |
BTW - that 'bend over in a ladylike manner when
wearing mikro-mini skirt' thing?
Yeah, that goes doubly if its a gal in the skirt.
(That is a joke. Please laugh. Are they laughing? No? Damn) |
but what if she isn't jailbait or a primadonna...
is it okay then???
*crosses fingers, toes, arms, legs, tongue and eyes*
_________________
Click
to subscribe to Toronto_Fen or send a blank e-mail to toronto_fen-subscribe@yahoogroups.ca
Why are a "wise man" and a "wise guy" opposites? |
|
|
| B.O.B.
Location: Etobicoke...
Age: 29
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:25 pm Post
subject: Re: . |
|
|
| Kaijugal wrote: |
| Personally I LOVE goths. |
really???
I'm goth... 
alright, not a true goth (whatever that is)... but goth nonetheless...
_________________
Click
to subscribe to Toronto_Fen or send a blank e-mail to toronto_fen-subscribe@yahoogroups.ca
Why are a "wise man" and a "wise guy" opposites? |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:27 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Cyrano de Bergerac wrote: |
| Silent Bob wrote: |
BTW - that 'bend over in a ladylike manner
when wearing mikro-mini skirt' thing?
Yeah, that goes doubly if its a gal in the skirt.
(That is a joke. Please laugh. Are they laughing? No?
Damn) |
but what if she isn't jailbait or a primadonna...
is it okay then???
*crosses fingers* |
It all depends.
There are so many things to consider.
-single or taken
-straight or happy
-interested or not
-bathed or 'true con vet'
-shaved or stubbly.
I mean, its a literal check list there.
(everything above is said in a straight face, monotone ala Joe Friday.
It is however meant in jest. Failure to comprehend this intent is
subject to a penalty of 1 hour, alone with GW Bush while he tried
to get out a coherent sentence. Failure to know who GWB is, makes
you an honorary Floridan. Lather Rince, red meat.)
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
| Rosemary
Semi-Official Welcoming Committee
Location: Hamilton, ON, Canada
Age: 37
Gender: Female |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:29 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
[Mommy Mode] Are you boys stirring
up trouble again? [Mommy Mode]
(Edited to add: Just a reminder that this isn't 10F-AD. Kinda skirting
the edge there. Hee hee, I made a funny.)
_________________
"One of
you is about to say goodbye to high society and
return to your sad existence,
working for the Man."
Ralph (The Smarmy Host), The Joe
Schmo Show |
|
|
| B.O.B.
Location: Etobicoke...
Age: 29
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:37 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Silent Bob wrote: |
| Cyrano de Bergerac wrote: |
| Silent Bob wrote: |
BTW - that 'bend over in a ladylike
manner when wearing mikro-mini skirt' thing?
Yeah, that goes doubly if its a gal in the skirt.
(That is a joke. Please laugh. Are they laughing?
No? Damn) |
but what if she isn't jailbait
or a primadonna... is it okay then???
*crosses fingers* |
It all depends.
There are so many things to consider.
-single or taken |
does it really matter?
| Quote: |
| -straight or happy |
again... if she's female, does it matter?
| Quote: |
| -interested or not |
why does this matter... I'm just going to look...
| Quote: |
| -bathed or 'true con vet' |
ok... that's just mean...
| Quote: |
| -shaved or stubbly. |
_________________
Click
to subscribe to Toronto_Fen or send a blank e-mail to toronto_fen-subscribe@yahoogroups.ca
Why are a "wise man" and a "wise guy" opposites? |
|
|
| B.O.B.
Location: Etobicoke...
Age: 29
Gender: Male |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:38 pm Post
subject: The FanBoys Prayer. |
|
|
The
FanBoys Prayer.
The Con is my shepard,
I shall not want.
It maketh me lie down in crash spaces,
it leadeth me besides the video room,
it restores my spirit.
It leadeth me to the dealers room,
for Ivanovas sake.
Yea though I walk through the Valley of Fanboys,
I fear no funk.
For thou art with me.
Thy soap and water they comfort me.
You prepare fresh ramen for me in the con suite,
and provide free drinks. My cup runeth over.
Surely new toys and autographs will follow me,
all the days of my life
and I shall dwell at the con, forever.
Amen.
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
| B.O.B.
Location: Etobicoke...
Age: 29
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:41 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Custard Pie aka Rosemary wrote: |
| [Mommy Mode] Are you boys stirring up trouble
again? [Mommy Mode] |
awww... but can't we play for a little while,
Mommy... huh? PLEASE???
oh... ok...
*hands back thread to SB and the rest of the ranters*
nobody lets me have any fun anymore...
*stamps foot*
| Quote: |
| (Edited to add: Just a reminder that this isn't
10F-AD. Kinda skirting the edge there. Hee hee, I made a funny.) |
I noticed that too... and nice pun...
_________________
Click
to subscribe to Toronto_Fen or send a blank e-mail to toronto_fen-subscribe@yahoogroups.ca
Why are a "wise man" and a "wise guy" opposites? |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:43 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Custard Pie aka Rosemary wrote: |
[Mommy Mode] Are you boys stirring up trouble
again? [Mommy Mode]
(Edited to add: Just a reminder that this isn't 10F-AD. Kinda
skirting the edge there. Hee hee, I made a funny.) |
I always play nice. Why, just today I was oh, wait..... they told
me not to talk about that.
Never Mind!
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
| Author |
Message |
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:45 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Cyrano de Bergerac wrote: |
| double post... d'oh! |
That sounds like it would hurt.
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
| B.O.B.
Location: Etobicoke...
Age: 29
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:46 pm Post
subject: Re: The FanBoys Prayer. |
|
|
| Silent Bob wrote: |
The FanBoys
Prayer.
The Con is my shepard,
I shall not want.
It maketh me lie down in crash spaces,
it leadeth me besides the video room,
it restores my spirit.
It leadeth me to the dealers room,
for Ivanovas sake.
Yea though I walk through the Valley of Fanboys,
I fear no funk.
For thou art with me.
Thy soap and water they comfort me.
You prepare fresh ramen for me in the con suite,
and provide free drinks. My cup runeth over.
Surely new toys and autographs will follow me,
all the days of my life
and I shall dwell at the con, forever.
Amen. |
*sings* Ah-Men
_________________
Click
to subscribe to Toronto_Fen or send a blank e-mail to toronto_fen-subscribe@yahoogroups.ca
Why are a "wise man" and a "wise guy" opposites? |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:47 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Cyrano de Bergerac wrote: |
| Silent Bob wrote: |
| Cyrano de Bergerac wrote: |
| Silent Bob wrote: |
BTW - that 'bend over in a
ladylike manner when wearing mikro-mini skirt'
thing?
Yeah, that goes doubly if its a gal in the
skirt.
(That is a joke. Please laugh. Are they laughing?
No? Damn) |
but what if she isn't jailbait
or a primadonna... is it okay then???
*crosses fingers* |
It all depends.
There are so many things to consider.
-single or taken |
does it really matter?
| Quote: |
| -straight or happy |
again... if she's female, does it matter?
| Quote: |
| -interested or not |
why does this matter... I'm just going
to look...
| Quote: |
| -bathed or 'true con vet' |
ok... that's just mean...
| Quote: |
| -shaved or stubbly. |
|
You think what you wanna think.....if its 'dirty', well, thats not
my fault.
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
Kaijugal
Joined: 20 May 2003
Total posts: 204
Location: Far away MONSTER ISLAND
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:48 pm Post
subject: Highlights -Words of wisdom i |
|
|
Words
of wisdom
| Silent Bob wrote: |
| If I do a costume, its cuz I like whatever I'm
doing |
| Silent Bob wrote: |
Personally, I enjoy seeing a good costume, period. |
| Anonymoose wrote: |
| I agree wholeheartedly with this. There are
some costumes out there that I have absolutely no idea where
they came from, but I love seeing the hard work and imagination
that went into them. |
| Stillvisions wrote: |
| (re:cosplayers)I've seen people act genuinely
bad toward them. I don't care what you wear, but that ain't
right. |
| Stillvisions wrote: |
| generally follow the policy of "respect earnest
effort" |
| rosemary wrote: |
| Sometimes you've just either got to let go of
the idea that everything can meet your personal expectations
or stop going to the event. |
| Eleyarth wrote: |
| as for the younger people... they're young.
And sometimes, we older people can be just as...immature?...
|
| Silent Bob wrote: |
| If you feel you are being mistreated, find a
security type person and point out the offender -NO- fan should
be made to feel uncomfortable at a con |
| Cyrano de Bergerac wrote: |
| all we can ask, is for everyone to be considerate |
| oselle wrote: |
| I just want to urge a general caution re: making
assumptions about people, their friends, and their motivations |
| rosemary wrote: |
| Seems to me there's enough people on this planet
hating each other. |
...er...after this it just got silly.
~ Good.
[/b]
_________________
" You must
be the change you wish to see in the world." |
|
|
| B.O.B.
Location: Etobicoke...
Age: 29
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:54 pm Post
subject: Re: Highlights -Words of wisdom i |
|
|
| Kaijugal wrote: |
| ...er...after this it just got silly.
~ Good. |
well, yeah... that's the point...
the tension in here was so thick, I couldn't draw my sepuku...
but now, I have a reason to live... 
_________________
Click
to subscribe to Toronto_Fen or send a blank e-mail to toronto_fen-subscribe@yahoogroups.ca
Why are a "wise man" and a "wise guy" opposites? |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:55 pm Post
subject: Re: Highlights -Words of wisdom i |
|
|
| Kaijugal wrote: |
Words of wisdom
(Bunch of good stuff snipped)
...er...after this it just got silly.
~ Good.
[/b] |
Thank you dear lady for finding the good stuff.
As to the silly stuff....well, it was getting too tense in here...needed
some comic relief. Now, since this is the 'open' forum, me n CdB running
around wearing only towels and kabuki makeup just woudn't go over
quite well.
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
Kaijugal
Joined: 20 May 2003
Total posts: 204
Location: Far away MONSTER ISLAND
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:00 am Post
subject: Re: Highlights -Words of wisdom i |
|
|
[/b][/quote]
Thank you dear lady for finding the good stuff.
As to the silly stuff....well, it was getting too tense in here...needed
some comic relief. Now, since this is the 'open' forum, me n CdB running
around wearing only towels and kabuki makeup just woudn't go over
quite well. [/quote]
You're right! You should come over to my house and do it here instead
_________________
" You must
be the change you wish to see in the world." |
|
|
| B.O.B.
Location: Etobicoke...
Age: 29
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:02 am Post
subject: Re: Highlights -Words of wisdom i |
|
|
| Kaijugal wrote: |
|
You're right! You should come over to my house and do it here
instead
|
I could be there in two hours...
_________________
Click
to subscribe to Toronto_Fen or send a blank e-mail to toronto_fen-subscribe@yahoogroups.ca
Why are a "wise man" and a "wise guy" opposites? |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:04 am Post
subject: |
|
|
Make him do 2 laps...I'm stuck
in Buffalo.
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
| B.O.B.
Location: Etobicoke...
Age: 29
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:05 am Post
subject: Re: Highlights -Words of wisdom i |
|
|
| Cyrano de Bergerac wrote: |
| Kaijugal wrote: |
|
You're right! You should come over to my house and do
it here instead
|
I could be there in two hours... |
on second thought... I could be there in thirty
minutes...
_________________
Click
to subscribe to Toronto_Fen or send a blank e-mail to toronto_fen-subscribe@yahoogroups.ca
Why are a "wise man" and a "wise guy" opposites? |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:07 am Post
subject: |
|
|
"Cyrano Express"
Overnight Delivery a specialty?
Ok...I gotta stop there...I'm about to hit the ceiling out here....
I'm heading back into 10FAD... I can let loose in there and let it
all hang out....
Oh wait....that sounded soooo wrong....
Was there a topic here?
Oh man....munchies.....
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
Kaijugal
Joined: 20 May 2003
Total posts: 204
Location: Far away MONSTER ISLAND
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:09 am Post
subject: ... |
|
|
Gee, stuck between Toronto and Buffalo... This is about to become
the best night of my life....
(further details editied to maintain "G" rating)
_________________
" You must
be the change you wish to see in the world." |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:13 am Post
subject: |
|
|
I had this bit writen up. It
was a spoof on the old Hulk Hogan "What ya gonna do" thing, where
he goes on about his pythons....
I had to delete it.
I felt bad.
The mods woulda been in a 3 stooges type smashup once they read it
and they all went for the 'nukes' at the same time.
It wasnt a pretty mental picture.
Oh, it had lots of references to 'pythons'.
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:14 am Post
subject: |
|
|
(Hey, I'm doing the 'Centari'
thing...check your reference books.....LOL!!!!!)
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
Kaijugal
Joined: 20 May 2003
Total posts: 204
Location: Far away MONSTER ISLAND
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:15 am Post
subject: |
|
|
| Silent Bob wrote: |
I had this bit writen up. It was a spoof on
the old Hulk Hogan "What ya gonna do" thing, where he goes on
about his pythons....
I had to delete it.
I felt bad.
The mods woulda been in a 3 stooges type smashup once they read
it and they all went for the 'nukes' at the same time.
It wasnt a pretty mental picture.
Oh, it had lots of references to 'pythons'.
|
Kaijugal ~~>
<~~ < has no idea what Silent Bob is talking about,...dies laughing
anyway..>
Pythons eh? 
_________________
" You must
be the change you wish to see in the world." |
|
| Author |
Message |
| B.O.B.
Location: Etobicoke...
Age: 29
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:16 am Post
subject: Re: ... |
|
|
| Kaijugal wrote: |
|
Gee, stuck between Toronto and Buffalo... This is about to become
the best night of my life....
|
say the word... and it'll get even better...
_________________
Click
to subscribe to Toronto_Fen or send a blank e-mail to toronto_fen-subscribe@yahoogroups.ca
Why are a "wise man" and a "wise guy" opposites? |
|
|
Kaijugal
Joined: 20 May 2003
Total posts: 204
Location: Far away MONSTER ISLAND
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:17 am Post
subject: |
|
|
| Silent Bob wrote: |
| (Hey, I'm doing the 'Centari' thing...check
your reference books.....LOL!!!!!) |
Does it have anything to do with how they cheat at cards?
_________________
" You must
be the change you wish to see in the world." |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:21 am Post
subject: |
|
|
| Kaijugal wrote: |
| Silent Bob wrote: |
| (Hey, I'm doing the 'Centari' thing...check
your reference books.....LOL!!!!!) |
Does it have anything to do with how they cheat at cards? |
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
Kaijugal
Joined: 20 May 2003
Total posts: 204
Location: Far away MONSTER ISLAND
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted:
Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:22 am Post
subject: |
|
|
| Silent Bob wrote: |
| Kaijugal wrote: |
| Silent Bob wrote: |
| (Hey, I'm doing the 'Centari' thing...check
your reference books.....LOL!!!!!) |
Does it have anything to do with how they cheat at cards? |
|
HAHAHA!
Alright everyone into 10FD.....
LOL!!!
_________________
" You must
be the change you wish to see in the world." |
|
|
Lara
Location: Happily Sandwiched
Between My #1 and #2, I wish ;)
Age: 23
Gender: Female |
| Posted:
Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:57 am Post
subject: |
|
|
<reads everything>
<blanketstatement> Everybody sucks. Person one sucks, person
2 sucks, and persons 3-10 suck. Lets all get over ourselves and have
fun. Im addressin' everyone, here. </blanketstatement>
Im addressing SB and those
pissy with him
You wouldn't be offended if he didn't strike a nerve. I know, I know,
no one will see it that way.
Someone did something to rub person A the wrong way, person A complains
about it, person(s) B get offended, without considering maybe they
did do something that warrrented
a reaction, intentional or not. Mayhem ensues.
Everybody sucks. End story. And whomeever is about to protest that
statement, yes, this DOES mean you, too.
I fly across country and people start a flame war without me! How
rude!
Everyone bend over for their spanking!
_________________
"Hit me, nail me make me god"
 |
|
|
Silent
Bob
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1220
Location: Tortuga Bay.
Age: 33
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:05 am Post
subject: |
|
|
Yes Master.
_________________
Hoist up
the mainbrace and fasten the sails
Crowsnest is screaming for shore
Ready the rum that is bound up in bales
Bringing what we need and more
Where survival's the game
Where you fight for your freedom
If you knew what was a slain
Pay or flee in Tortuga Bay. |
|
|
| B.O.B.
Location: Etobicoke...
Age: 29
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:10 am Post
subject: |
|
|
| Lara wrote: |
| I fly across country and people start a flame
war without me! How rude!
Everyone bend over for their spanking! |
*bends over*
_________________
Click
to subscribe to Toronto_Fen or send a blank e-mail to toronto_fen-subscribe@yahoogroups.ca
Why are a "wise man" and a "wise guy" opposites? |
|
|
| Stephen
Christian
Wurst Spelr
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Total posts: 1251
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:00 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
Megan and I had a good discussion
about this message thread. We talked about what we believed was the
point of each side.
I had hoped to have time to write both parties and to try and put
together a well thought our summary of what I believe has been said.
However, TT is quickly coming up and I have way too many things on
my to do list to give this the proper thought.
I'm going to move this back to the public domain but the 10FAD section
and I will put this summary in the Open Discussion area.
As to not put words into anyone mouth this is, in summary, is what
I believe the point in this discussion:
| Quote: |
Science Fiction and Fantasy fandom pride itself
on being a group of educated and open minded individuals. We
respect and enjoy everyones individuality and diverse points
of views.
However, we live in a world where not everyone is as open minded
or as familiar with how things work in our world of fandom.
Therefore people new to "our world" (or someone who may only
live it once a year via TT) may initially be shocked or surprised
at some of the things they encounter during the convention.
I hope and believe no disrespect is meant.
A classic example in fandom is the "hug," those who have been
in fandom a long time know a hug can be as common as saying
"HI" across the hall. The quote of the day is:
(Gordon Rose) DON'T FORGET
... WHEN YOU SEE ONE AT THE CON, HUG A VOLUNTEER!.
However, someone new to fandom would be very unconfortable if
someone they barely knew, came up and hugged them. I've often
just walked up to a volunteer and said "thank you" and gotten
this looks of "what do you want." Others, may misread what the
hug means and possible thinking this person is interested in
me.
The simple fact is unless the person tells you so, their actions,
their clothing, they way they look, the way they walk or talk
does NOT mean anything! There is a huge fault in logic when
someone reads something into an action. Are we really saying
it's the fault of the person who drew the reaction? Isn't it
really the fault of the person making the assumption?
Fans dressing up in school uniforms because they are anime fans
are NOT saying, "hey look at me!" They are celebrating something
they enjoy. It pretty shallow that we gwauk because we see some
more leg? Are we saying we need women completely cover their
bodeis because the a few people can't control themselves? Again
isn't the fault here the people gwauking and not the people
in the uniforms?
If we are truly educated, open minded and informed someone should
be able to walk in naked and draw no more attention than a person
wearing a suit, or a tee shirt and jeans. However, sadly as
open minded as we all CLAIM and TRY to be there are still things
that grab the attention of each us. We are human.
I think we can all agree that this is unfortune, as this is
one of the things Science Fiction and Fantasy is trying to teach
us. It's not the packaging that matters but what is inside.
We need to remeber to use our minds appologise and move along.
Let's try and respect each other.
|
_________________
Stephen Christian (tcon@icomm.ca)
|
|
|
Lara
Location: Happily Sandwiched
Between My #1 and #2, I wish ;)
Age: 23
Gender: Female |
| Posted:
Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:56 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Silent Bob wrote: |
Yes Master.
|
You I spank daily
_________________
"Hit me, nail me make me god"
|
|
|
Lara
Location: Happily Sandwiched
Between My #1 and #2, I wish ;)
Age: 23
Gender: Female |
| Posted:
Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:57 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
| Cyrano de Bergerac wrote: |
| Lara wrote: |
| I fly across country and people start
a flame war without me! How rude!
Everyone bend over for their spanking! |
*bends over* |
Next week...next week..
_________________
"Hit me, nail me make me god"
|
|
|
| B.O.B.
Location: Etobicoke...
Age: 29
Gender: Male |
| Posted:
Sat Jul 05, 2003 12:49 am Post
subject: |
|
|
| Lara wrote: |
| Cyrano de Bergerac wrote: |
| Lara wrote: |
| I fly across country and people
start a flame war without me! How rude!
Everyone bend over for their spanking! |
*bends over* |
Next week...next week.. |
yes, Mistress...
your words are my commands...
_________________
Click
to subscribe to Toronto_Fen or send a blank e-mail to toronto_fen-subscribe@yahoogroups.ca
Why are a "wise man" and a "wise guy" opposites? |
|
|
